Because it was written after humans showed up? Or revised then?

Don't you justify my compulsive attention to unimportant details with logic.

Besides, compared to the other races that did exist at that time, the dwarves were still short.

But it's still specifically mentioned that they acquired the name 'dwarves' after humans arrived!

"Descended from the Elder God Clangorum, the dwarven race originally called themselves the clangoru, but humans, when they first arrived in Lusternia, for some reason insisted on referring to the clangoru as dwarves, which term eventually became accepted in the common vernacular."

Pedantry ftw.

EDIT:

And can someone please fix it so that the Kephera file doesn't say Keph was an Elder Goddess? I'm sure she was Primal.

Although we're having fun discussing Tully's future plot ideas, I might as well derail the thread once more and post two ideas I would love to see expanded on. One of the great things about Lusternia's story is the sheer number of possibilities the story can take without pulling some remote story possibility out from nowhere (Vertani, anyone?).

- Estarra: since the game began she's only been in four major events (that I can think of), two with Soulless threatening creation and two involving the Transcendental Beacon. I'm aware that because of her very nature as the super supreme being she has to take a back seat in most events to make things interesting, but she has a unique position due to how she was created and the very active role both Dynara and Magnora used to play. There are a lot of questions that could be touched on involving her, such as: what exactly is her connection with humans up to the present? despite her memory loss, how much does she now remember of the beginning of time? does she have all the powers, and more importantly, the knowledge to use the powers of Magnora and Dynara? can she create new life and new ensouled beings? does she have little baby Elder Gods growing in new creches somewhere? Like I said before, her nature probably prevents most of these questions from being addressed, but it would be very cool if some could be touched on as if to say she's been off having fun without the rest of us somewhere.

- Dwarves and undeath: to quote from the histories: "Though Klangratch held no qualms of using undead as shock troops, he never allowed Urlach to touch the dwarves in this manner. Perhaps mistrusting that Urlach would keep to this agreement, Klangratch enchanted a stone that would immediately release the souls of dwarves onto the wheel of rebirth, rendering the bodies not able to be raised as undead. To this day, the dwarves revere this stone as their most holy artifact."

One notes the discrepancy with the undead dwarves in Angkrag, though I guess someone will point out this passage to contradict me: If, as many of the Board have postulated, members of the Cosmic Hope Expedition were infected by the Taint and mutated into the undead variant, the ur’Guard would be ripe for indoctrination based on the misguided assumption that the Taint undead are somehow a mystic recreation of Urlach’s resurrections. (One Board member hypothesizes that Urlach did indeed turn many orclach warriors into undead, but, if true, the Taint undead are obviously a separate variety.)

It would still be interesting to see if a group of dwarves somewhere went searching for the stone.

That stone exists. It's in the Razine mountains. There's no curiosity or mystery about it.

Hm, guess I missed it.

Ok, then why doesn't it work?

It does. When you kill undead dwarves, that's where you bring the corpses.

Do we have a foot-in-mouth smiley?

...apparently I am just retarded then. I assumed the wheel would prevent dwarves from ever becoming undead in the first place. Please ignore me all informed individuals.

Also, thank you for telling me Razenth.

Edit: Not sure about a foot-in-mouth smiley, but there is always

Let's assume the smiley with the hammer is either Fain or Razenth.

My point about Estarra still stands, I guess.

I thought Primals were still Elders. There have been 4 types of Gods. Soulless, the ones Dynara gave to Magnora to do her bidding, Elders, the ones Dynara kept from Magnora, Vernals, the ones mortals raised with Nexii and Ascended, the ones mortals ascend to (Like Ayridion).

Primals are just the very first gods that Dynara decided to keep. Or First Circle Elders.

As far as I knew there were three kinds of gods - Primal, Elder (or Star) and Vernal. The Primal were of two sub-types. Those without souls, the Souless Gods who were sent to Magnora, and those with souls who were allied with the Elder, though they teneded to fall asleep for long periods of time. Asn't Ayridion a Vernal God?



In the History of the Celestine Empire, when the expedition gets to the Vortex from the Astral Plane, Lolly Pringle mentions that the Illuminati are surrounded by snuffling creatures that look part-dog part-lizard, as well as some other strange creatures that he doesn't describe. But I still think it would be cool if Peri, Djinni and Efriti lived in the Vortex. Beings made of smokeless fire, as the stories say.



Finks are an offshoot race of the dracnari, outcast cause they can't breathe fire. I thought I had made that clear.



Kalodan said that the hunters followed Father Sun - which makes me think that they may have come from Jojobo, if it still exists. Which brings me to my questions:

* Does Jojobo still exist? Do the aslarans and igasho that were noted in the forces that came to protect Ackleberry have anything to do with Jojobo? Does the great cat spirit of the igasho tribe have anything to do with the Great Spirit of Lion?

* Could one of the current Elder Gods splinter into another mortal race if they got badly wounded?

* Is the Aetherbubble of Moon the actual moon? Like you're actually landing on the moon and walking around it if you go there? And if so, will we find aetherbubbles of Sun and the Planets?

* What happened to Packleader Oolit's loboshigaru tribe that fought many battles with the aslarans over the Grey Moors?

Primal gods were fourth circle I thought

Pretty sure the Primal gods were just the first gods, Dracnoris, Keph and quite a few soulless, and they were given the fourth circle by the Star gods.

The primal gods seemed more split up into those who had curiousity and those who did not. If you read the book of Dracnoris, it says Dynara only kept him because he asked why, while the rest did not.

And it is implied that He asked why because He had a soul.

And no saying He didn't have a soul, or we'll have to start banning Dracnari and Kephera from the forest too. *hum*

No, it's very confusing, but there's a fourth god type - Ascended.

Reference of God types.

1: Primal: Sort of prototype Elders. They were also huge and most of them didn't have the Star shape of the Elders. They were wise, knowledgeable and extremely powerful. They were considered members of the Third Circle, but rarely involved themselves in Star God affairs. The spent most of their time meditating. Examples: Dracnoris, Keph, Vrandac.
- A specific type of Primal are the Soulless. They..um... Have no souls. They live only to consume, and Dynara gave them to Magnora because she didn't like 'em. They're massive. Examples: Kethuru, Illith, Grue.


2: Elders: Also known as Star Gods, this is the most common form of Deity. They are powerful and (for the most part) wise and intelligent, though not nearly as much as the Primals. Back before the Splinterings, they organised themselves into Circles, each circle dedicated to a different discipline. The circles were:
First: Leaders
Second: Warriors
Third: Meditators. Primal gods, the hamadhi (Elders who dedicated themselves to healing and caring for the Half-Formed) and Star Gods who also meditated similarly to the Primals.
Fourth: Artists
Fifth: Thinkers.
Sixth: Awakeners
Seventh: Creators.

3: Vernal: Were formed by infusing a mortal with massive amounts of Power from a nexus. The mortal becomes giant and very powerful. In order to drive back Kethuru, the last nine surviving Vernals bonded together to form Avechna and the Seals. Examples: Vestera, D'Varsha, Klangratch.

4: Ascended: A Mortal infused with the power of the Nine Seals. The only current Ascended God is Ayridion, (formerly Soll) and he was created from the powers of the Seals in order to renew the bindings that hold Kethuru out of phase from the First World.

Hope that clears things up, Admins tell me if I got anything wrong.

The Hamadhi do not study the Primal Gods, the study the half-formed.



The Third Circle is more like this:

o The Primal Gods who entered deep meditation, contemplating the universe, the star gods, et cetera. These were the Sleepers.

o The Hamadhi

o Star God Meditators - who also go into deep meditation, the most notable being Lacostian.

Soulless Gods are violent sub-set of Primal Gods. They are not a different type.

EDIT:

IE, all Soulless Gods are Primal Gods, but not all Primal Gods are Soulless Gods.

Fixed. No clue why I thought Hamadhi cared for the Primals.



Fixed. No idea why I thought that either. :/ I need caffeine.