Although he did praise Microsft slightly, you missed the point. He DID criticize Microsoft. And to a lesser extent, the US government.

You people completely misunderstand me if you think that so much of what I say has some sort of assessment, purpose, or value!

This thread wasn't pro-US or anti-Mexico or anything. It was about ironic observations. Same with the above.

You'll know when I'm talking about the value of something. I don't mince words.

EDIT: Ok, so I think Mexico's president is a douchebag and I meant that to come across.

I believe that such proposal could be neat, if the whole of Latin America had the opportunity to reciprocally bill USA for all the wars they sponsored down south since toppling of Arbenz of Guatemala, Operation Condor, Contras, the Cuban Project, the vast support given to corrupt regimes who in the long-run are the ones responsible for mantaining (case in point: Albaro Uribe-Colombia) their respective countries in such a dilapidated state.

It would go something like this:

-the years of intervention by your country has cost us so and so many million dollars in infrastructure loss.
-the years of intervention by your country has cost us so and so many million dollars in failed taxes recollection.
-the years of intervention by your country has cost us so and so many deaths, and the funerary costs to bury them, thanks to barbarism and your teachings though much of this burden has been somwhat diminshed because multitudes have been burried in mass graves.
-the years of intervention by your country has cost us so and so many millions wasted in investing in military equipment, mostly purchased from you, and the military itself that until this day is carried over after learning to mantain through many decades a military-controlled state (not all dictators happened cause of USA intervention, most dictatorships rising in Latin America has much to do to with the old-heriarchy based system inherited by the Spaniards/Portuguese-- but USA did back up the vast majority of military dictatorships in the region and cashed on previously mentioned culture by expanding such militaristic cultures.
-the years of intervention by your country has cost us so and so many years in local development, delaying us considerably much.
-the years of your intervention and your Soviet counterpart by using Latin America as a stage of wars by proxy has cost us so and so many millions in wasted resources.

And the list could continue onwards. Then USA could concentrate on the Iraqi's and working out how to accept/bill them for any form of illegal migration (any folks have any data with how many displaced Iraqis, how many accepted by USA, and how many simply being barred from entrance?), after we pay their bill for obliterating their country.

Picture a nice discourse as the following touching on the subject (supposedly given by a Cacique Guaicaipuro Cuatemoc to the Chiefs of State of the European Community touching the subject of foreign debt):


"THE REAL WORLD DEBT:


A letter from an Indian chief to all European governments to repay the gold and silver they borrowed between 1503 and 1660.

Here am I, Guaicaipuro Cuautemoc, who have come to discover those who are celebrating the discovery. Here am I, a descendant of those who colonized America 40,000 years ago, who have come to discover those who discovered it 500 years ago.

My European brother at his border asks me for a written document with a visa in order to discover those who discovered me. The European moneylender asks me to pay a debt contracted by Judas which I never authorized to be sold to me. The European pettifogger explains to me that all debts must be paid with interest, even if it means selling human beings and whole countries without their consent. I am gradually discovering them.

I also have payments to claim. I can also claim interest. The evidence is in the Archivo de Indias. Paper after paper, receipt after receipt, signature after signature show that between 1503 and 1600 alone, 185 thousand kilos of gold and 16 million kilos of silver were shipped into Sanlúcar de Barrameda from America.

Plunder? May Tanatzin have mercy on me for thinking that the Europeans, like Cain, kill and then deny their brother's blood!

Genocide? That would mean giving credit to slanderers like Bartolome de las Casas who equated the discovery of the Indies with its destruction, or the extremists such as Dr. Arturo Pietri, who states that the outburst of capitalism and of the current European civilization was due to the flood of precious metals! No way! Those 185 thousand kilos of gold and 16 million kilos of silver must be considered as the first of several friendly loans granted by America for Europe's development. The contrary would presuppose war crimes, which would mean not only demanding immediate return, but also compensation for damages. I prefer to believe in the least offensive hypothesis. Such fabulous capital exports were nothing short of the beginning of a Marshalltezuma Plan to guarantee the reconstruction of a barbarian Europe, ruined by
deplorable wars against the Muslim foe. For this reason, as we approach the Fifth Centennial of the Loan, we must ask ourselves:

What have our European brothers done in a rational, responsible or at least productive way with the resources so generously advanced by the International Indoamerican Fund?

The answer is: unfortunately nothing. Strategically, they squandered it on battles such a Lepanto, invincible armies, Third Reichs and other forms of mutual extermination, only to end up being occupied by the Yankee troops of NATO, like Panama (but without a canal).

Financially, they were incapable - even after a moratorium of 500 years - of either paying back capital with interest or of becoming independent from net returns, raw materials and cheap material and cheap energy that they import from the Third World.

This disgusting picture corroborates Milton Friedman's assertion that a subsidized economy can never function properly, and compels us to claim - for their own good - the repayment of capital and interest which we have so generously delayed all these centuries.

Stating this, we want to make clear that we will refrain from charging our European brothers the despicable and bloodthirsty floating rates of 20 or even 30 percent that they charge to Third World countries. We shall only demand the devolution of all precious metals advanced, plus a modest fixed annum accumulated over 300 years. On this basis, and applying the European formula of compound interest, we inform our discoverers that they only owe us, as a first payment against the debt, a mass of 185,000 kilos of gold and 16 million kilos of silver, both raised to the power of 300. This equals a figure that would need over 300 digits to put on paper and whose weight fully exceeds that of the planet Earth.

What huge piles of gold and silver! How much would they weigh when calculated in blood? To say that in half a millennium Europe has not been able to produce sufficient wealth to pay back this modest interest is as much as admitting to the total financial failure of capitalism.

The pessimists of the Old World state that their civilization is already so bankrupt that they cannot fulfill their financial or moral commitments. If this is the case, we shall be happy if they pay us with the bullet that killed the poet. But that is not possible, because that bullet is the very heart of Europe."

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?...l=&posts=10

I opened this thread hoping for a good read on baby eating. You disappoint.

You could always go read the next best thing.

Well, I mentioned the Soviets in there somewhere, whom according to the propaganda I grew up with were well-known baby eaters... So do I still win?

No, since your post is basically complaining about the US stepping in to put down 1) terrorist infiltration, or 2) thieving commie pigs who tried to steal US-owned property.

Oh, and your numbers on gold exports are pretty blatantly false. That's nearly all the gold that's been mined throughout history.

I'm telling you, put money into developing clean thermonuclear weaponry. World will be a much better place. That, and get rid of this silly 'regard for human life.'

US intervention has never been wanted nor needed nor welcomed since the start of the Cold war.

Pish posh. Maybe not in Latin America, where you're a fan of thieves and religious murderers in power. (Nevermind that we elected one not once, but twice. ) For the rest of the world, there was "Save us from the thieving commie pigs!" (Korea, Vietnam), "Save us from the scary Christians!" (Bosnia), and "Save us from the thieving dictator!" (Kuwait).

We've got enough domestic problems that we should be spending a good bit of our military budget on. We can conjure up billions out of thin air for the war in Iraq, but we can't fund education or health care at home. I don't care if Kuwait, Bosnia, Korea, or Vietnam are communist, ruled by dictators, or just places to live. That's not my problem, and I know it's callous to say that, but it's true.

1. It is your problem.

2. Just because money exists for some things, doesn't mean it exists for all things. At least not when it comes to governments.

1. Why? America has this thing with saving people, as long as we're not in the process of screwing them at the time. Things like the United Nations exist for a reason, and working unilaterally because they might not get the job done is about as counterproductive as anything I can think of.
2. That's total bull . You either have money or you don't, and we're already up to our eyes in debt. Money magically appearing to pay your bills is a good way to make it worthless.

1. America has this thing with trying to keep certain parts of the world stable. Most of our economy relies on the trust and existance of a world economy. This has been true since atleast WWII.

2. There is nothing magical about world treaties and governments giving butt loads of money to the U.S. for their military technologies. You can't exactly export free health care.

Yeeeah. When we were actually in the middle of (Christian Capitalist) dictatorships, you people didn't do . Now you're all up in arms because Latin America has a new dictator, and this time he's a dirty commie instead of a nice, sensible capitalist dictator. Pinochet, anyone? What about when we were suffering under a mock-democratic military one-party dictatorship? The US has never cared about stability or democracy in its foreign policy, just about getting rid of "troublesome" regimes.

(Kuwait) thieving dictator?... Let me refresh my memory... are we talking about Saddam Hussein? The same Saddam Hussein dad was taken to power by the CIA, the same Saddam Hussein that was armed by USA, the same Saddam Hussein that appears shaking hands with Rumsfeld back in the day when they were pals?

Another problem I have with this notion of "thieving" is that there theory that Kuwait was slant drilling on Iraqi oil reserves, not only that but after the collapse of Iraq following the Iraq-Iran war (both parties financed by USA. Hahaha) Kuwait uncessingly prevented Iraq from recovering by refusing debt pardons nor at the very least reducing oil production to increase price of the barrel. And what was this of Saddam Hussein meeting with Bush Sr. folk practically asking if US would greenlight the invasion into Kuwait? And now, we have US foreign policy selling this marvelous idea of Democracy by gun-point. Talk about freedom...

As you can see I am of those folks that are extremely critical of US foreign policy specially when those folks carrying out said policy are so foolish that more than once they must cook a second intervention to "fix" what the first intervention screwed (take Iran for example, sabotaging Mohammed Mossadegh's regime to perpetuate the tyrannical Shah's regime, did that not play an important part for the massive support the Iranian Revolution/Khomeini have? And now what do you have Iran a "Muslism Fascist" regime that has been treated like a Middle Eastern Cuba).

And Vietnam and Korea? You do know that USA eventually supported Pol Pot, didn't you? POL POT, for crying out loud. A commie to kill another commie, who would've thunk that? Rescuing the world from "commies", more like perpetuating colonies and oppression.

Anyway, back to Latin America. The region definately didn't need USA intervention, in fact most of the problems were caused or mantained bcause of it. If you go to a vast majority of Latin America's you'll find the usual oligarchy-feudal system going on, with large % of the populations living in poverty and MIGRATING, but behind the history of dictatorships and armed conflicts, you'll always find USA's flag waving in the background. No matter if it was to stop the so-called "commie threat" which back in the day was a very broad term (nuns were commies, for example.), or to save the multibillion drug-trafficking network that was established and financed by the "empire" (as you said) up north.

If any thing good has come out of USA interventions in the region, then that must be the Panama Canal, cheap bananas, and that millions of junkies up north can count with a handsome supply of blow-- whenever someone up north purchases some of it, congratulate yourself cause by every kilo you purchase you are saving the wha--... corrupt polititian/oligarchies.

You say you want to curb immigration? How about if at first USA denies "assylum" to the usual band of hoodlums that escape Latin American countries with millions unmarked dollar bills? The key with stopping illegal immigration definately is helping develop the region, but that would be impossible with the corrupt bureaucrat coming out of the wood-work, and 80% of them backed by USA (better a corrupt polititian than a commie, cause with them you at least know how much $$$ you need to deal with them to keep the "preferential treatment of exploiting cheap resources... specially nowadays with CHINA desperately trying to enter such exclusive market).

Picture a barrel, but with no bottom. No matter how much dollars you toss in, what laws you pass, the end result will be you with a bunch of nothing. Millions of dollars wasted and a multitude of projects left unfinished or undone. Want to stop illegal migration then use USA's intelligence capacity to start crucifying those fiends responsible for such ill administration, instead of offering them a escape pod and safe haven. And then perhaps countries with histories of tax evation, malversation would show positive results. Take the recently approved Millenium Account that El Salvador would have hands on. How many millions of tax-payer dollars make up the MCA? Well, I personally wouldn't trust the ES government with even a single penny of it, if you'd ask me.


BWT: When you say that "you" selected a religious murderer twice... are you talking about the same person I'm thinking? I was he was... pro-life? Surely there can't be such thing as "pro-life murderer, mass murderer at that":unsure:

To be honest, that "religious" thing imo is just a convenient facade polititians play to cash in on people's feelings. A better label wold be "oil baron/murderer" , case that is what really drives him.

Pretty much. You can clean up your own house, so long a 1) you don't have to kill an entire ethnic group to do it, and 2) you don't take American goods or property. Again, we're ignoring Bush. His approval rating has risen to an impressive 32%, but still, I'm sure people would be dancing on street corners with free American flags if someone assassinated him while he was on tour in a foreign country.

Ok, so, I was researching Mugulu's claims (I still find them to be unsubstantiated, but I'm working on it) and found an incredibly amusing quote.

Gee, if it is taking you this long to find any information corroborating my claims means that you've got a hell of a slow net connection... or are simply blind to the infinite of information that is out there. :shrug:

By the way, is this the same Dick Cheney that was at the head of Halliburton which just happens to be one of the multitude of corporations that have made a killing with the Iraq War? The same Dick Cheney headed an energy task force that just happened to have detailed information on oil pipelines, refiniers, of the whole Middle East with plans of occupation and control of said oil-gas infrastructure? The same Dick Cheney that is so eager to keep the goingons in his office that has gone as far as saying that the Vice President's Office is not under the jurisdiction of the Executive Branch?

You know I find it hilarious that you seem to disparage the puppet oh so much, but go to the length of quoting the puppeteer.


And no, we aren't ignoring Bush, because he is real, and no matter how many times you close your eyes when you open them he will always be there along with the years of screw ups in his name.

Lastly, you say something about respecting US property. Fine and dandy, but how about if USA goes and does EXACTLY the same? It isn't at all heinous to ask someone else to have the same courtesy. In other words, Latin America/Middle East/Africa not US property or toy. Being the capitalist monster US is, they could get in line and offer up for whatever resource they want. If they don't there is always the Chinese or Europeans to do so.

By the way, while you are searching here is a video you can watch for your entertainment:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/

You forgot 3) You're under a communist or non-Christian regime.