Well, I agree. All skills should have some use for the class. Healing should be made more viable for Wiccans, Runes for Mages, etc. I didn't realize the problem was as bad as 'completely relying on paralyze hex', though, since there have been past Hexen Nihilists who have made the skill work.

With the cure changes, and the lack of stackable hexes, it isn't feasible to draw one/two then toss them. Six hexes is enough to screw anyone over for 6-10 seconds, I've found, if you pick the right ones, but after that, it's usually just easier to web them or invest darksilver and start abjuring sleep, since people cure too quickly without aeon. Fair enough, there are some that will stack, but the curing order seems random (I've tried) and is usually one good one paired with something like pox.

Also, focus mind still helps - a lot.

i think people just want options. I mean that's why everyone switched to bards. everything gets to be the same after awhile and people guild hop. But yeah thanks for reinforcing my point on slickness won't ever be added. of course I always try something stupid like swinging my athame with sense envenomed.

and Nihilists have crucify which is awesome. with two nihilists and one trampler, they can instantly kill anyone in a couple seconds depending on the timing. it's sick.

Alright. Nihilists have a nice group kill. Although three people amissioing can absolve just as easily.

http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?show...c=5715&st=0

Remember this?

sorry I don't, I wasn't a forum person back then. and no they cannot. amissio is what 12%? 36% for 3 people. over half of that cured by sparkle mana scroll then there's regens, perfection. also amissio doesn't hold anyone down. the other person just has to shield or go away. the crucify+trample+sac combo is unblockable unless they miss timing.

edit: by unblockable I mean unblockable after it starts with the crucify.

No, but it can be done easily. However, Nihilists having a nice instakill in a group, (which is hard enough as it is considering the amount of Nihilists with any trans skills that I've seen running around) doesn't impact the hexes bit.

convince ethelon to go nihilist

I dont think saying other guilds have useless skills makes a point.. it just shows other skills need some work too.. I would love for every tertiary to be viable.

Hexes are hard as Nil to stick.. focus mind plays a huge part in combat and can destroy attempted locks. That is the very issue, trying to solve the issue without making tarotists too powerful.. focusing and command stacking are the two main causes of failed combos.. they let you cure too quickly.. part of why aeon is so nasty.. you can focus but then you cant use other cures.

At least Hexes gives you something you unique to do. Healing grants you the unique ability to diagnose others, diagnose without using equilibrium, cure deep wounds without using your sip, and bedevil. The rest are things you can already do, and if you're a top combatant, you can obviously do them well enough that you don't really need the help. Healing isn't horrid, but it seriously gimps your offense for very little in return. They're not even that great for support.

Anyway, back to hexes.

Oh, one other thing. Hexers are fairly well equipped for balance locking with access to fast and reliable masked scabies/epilepsy. Of course, balance locking isn't easy, and if it's supposed to be their preferred strategy, then they could use a bit of help. Currently, ectoplasm is visible in blackout. Masking it in blackout would allow hexers to hide it under vapors, while the only non-hex Nihilist who would be helped by such a change would be the one with the Grim.

actually if you dont have aeon balance lock can be gotten out of.. its only a lock with aeon. Otherwise you need to have them ready to sleep, or used stupidity with sleep.. and try to win that way. Without aeon the moment balance is back triggers will writhe.. aeon stops that.

In short.. no its not reliable for hexists.. just has potential if you can hold them well.. which requires more setup and if they catch ecto its less likely to work.. would be fun though.

Sleeplock is the current best option, however wrack would be what you have to use it with to avoid waking.. and if they wake they will cure and kafe insomnia immediately.

Problem isnt the ailments its trying to keep pace with curing -and- buying enough time to land a kill.

Also, remember, you can create new afflictions for Nihilism (doesnt even have to be a pact power), or a new skill of benefit. The options arent all that limited. Come give me your ideas and your thoughts!

Incorrect. There still lies to be a Nihilist to make hexes 'work'. I have been testing hexes with Ciaran and we've been looking at -every- single little thing that makes hexes horrible.

-Sensitivity stripping deafness.
-Ectoplasm being seen through blackout.
-High power cost for crucify leaves no room for the Nihilist to use multiple doublewhammies.

Ciaran and I have also tested ways to use hexes to the best of its ability, and Ciaran and I have sparred a few times. Currently the only way I was able to kill Ciaran 1 on 1 with hexes was sacrifice, which only happened due to luck.

Also, back to the slickness affliction, adding it as an investment would be dumb, as it would be cured instantly like almost every affliction from demon/angels currently are, and adding it in hexes would be absurd. Throwing into necromancy via ectoplasm however would be a great idea imho. It would help Hexen Nihilists much more than it would Tarot/Astrologists.

Agreed, slickness would also give a slightly better chance to stick ectoplasm long enough to do something with it.. otherwise they keep slickness an extra second.

Huge no to slickness in the demon. You don't get to count to eight and get a hard lock by bashing a macro.

It greatly amuses me that Yrael has more of a clue than the Nihilist combatants on the thread. Hexes naturally outpace curing. That right there is how you stack them. The power to flat out overwhelm someone's offense and punish them while you catch up on healing isn't laughable.

I find it hilarious how foolish you seem to be. Yrael was a Nihilist with hexes.. so he has some idea on them.. I cant say he is noted as having slain top tier but he does have some practice with them. That simple, if you wish to add to the conversation then please feel free.

I also welcome you to tell me how you plan to slay someone with hexes Xavius? Since you seem all knowing? Oh wait.. without aeon they will get back up.. cure out.. or leave.. I forgot... its not as easy as it is for wiccans. Also slickness wasnt for demon investing, I would asthma with demon anor slickness for a lock that way.. too strong. With Ectoplasm it might be a little better but that is up to be seen.

However I have some ideas.. but I will give briefs on them.. hopefully someone can improve on them...

Issues with hexes is holding curing long enough to then land a kill.. which is largely killed by focus mind and command stacking (hence why aeon is so useful)

So perhaps as an example.. new skill that varies... DARKCALL EMBODY name is wholly an example.. For instance.. if they have 3-4 of the following... stupidity, confusion, dementia, paranoia, oh and lets say epilepsy.. you would brand the target blasphemous to Lord Baalphegar.. this could do something differtent based on the demon lord.. but it would need balancing and such.

Another thing was a burst type hex.. that could work perhaps if it had a power cost and a limit.. but curing could be a problem with a power cost.. and without one you could whore them faster.

Ideas thoughts concerns etc please.

P.S. As usual.. only comment if you have something useful to say, even if its an argument to a suggestion. You get nowhere if your feedback isnt helpful.

Not when you throw in allheale, focus mind, and consider the time to draw them. If you're not using focus mind then it's your own fault.

yep. by the time a mugwump throws and redraws that's slightly over 2 seconds enough time to get focus mind balance which will cure most of the things they'll want to throw at you anyways.

EDIT: I am an ignorant bum.

Even without having to draw hexes or spend power, Allhex barely outpaced top level curing, and if you count draw time, you've got to be doing something wrong to be outpaced by Hexes alone.