You can't kill someone while you're throwing hexes, that's just setup. The entire point is that you can't lock them with hexes, and with command stacking, they can cure whole swathes of them at one go. You could doublewhammy 12 hexes, and if you can't kill them in like 6 seconds, they're healthy again.

...except that they have a demon, a tail, and the ability to draw more hexes.

you have enough power to doublewhammy 10. doing that is stupid anyways. firstly you should always throw a hex to make them sip allheale. something like vapors has the best effect since allheale cures blackout and then they still need to use an herb.

Let me make this pointed...

Tail DOES NOT kill unless you get lucky on crotamine and stick it long term.
Demon will not kill you.
Drawing more hexes means you arent going for a kill yet.

You can give every ailment in Lusternia but if they can cure it and prevent you from managing a kill then you have managed to do nothing. I can give you 15 ailments and then go to kill.. but if you focus and cure off then shield and sip I havent done anything but use some cures and likely wasted power. These is always the chance you cant accomplish something, but you shouldnt come to expect it.

The problem with hexes is not that they dont afflict, its that you need to buy enough time to land your kill, whether its damage, wrack, sacrifice, or another kill condition. Focus mind and command stacking are why curing can get you out of things before a kill can finish.

Aeon is used in combinations to prevent aeon curing.. aeon prevents command stacking.. and stupidity/impatience are used to help control focus mind.. that is how tarotists do their work.

-Wrack is 3-4 amissio/leech that is base 12-16. If they sip mana, you are put back another base 4 or so per sip.
-Sacrifice is 6 second base eq.. you can get past stun and even have writehd off before this.. and that is 7p.. sacrifice is 3p which means no whammies or doublewhammies.. and needing trample or to use shrivel to get you to there
-Damage is unreliable and difficult, needing more work than wrack and possibly more than sacrifice based on target health
-Hexes does not get soulless... least right now.. (use a few of the hex then throw one last and it kills in X seconds? Hm?)

Your input has given some feedback and made some ideas. However sticking certain ailments is useless, and others are too powerful as well as would you want to risk 2p on getting something useles to stick? while still letting them cure everything you need to stick. Conversely would people be ok with uncurable anorexia, shackles, or paralysis? Impatience would be quite nasty as it would prevent focus mind. Problem is power cost and either being too weak or too strong. I liked the idea but too many flaws... unless someone cares to work it out?

However here is an example of the By Demon Lord skill... However it could use work on which ailments to give better odds by using more ailments only hexes can give. Feedback is greatly appreciated and it could use work.. as I have said.. my goal is 3 options (wrack, damage, and sacrifice), 1 that isnt for one imparticular and gives room to decide, and 1 for a new kill condition...

+ means hexes only ailment
- means demon only ailment

Luciphage: Paralysis, Healthleech, -Powersink, +Peace, +Addiction
=Massive mana drain
=Passive mana drain
(Wrack option)

Gorgulu: -Rigormortis, Worms, Scabies, Anorexia, +Vomiting
=All limbs break, 1 every 1-2 seconds
=Long loss of conciousness, or uncurable starvation for a time
(Sacrifice option)

Baalphegar: Paranoia, Stupidity, -Confusion, +Clumsy, Dementia (+Phobias, Epilepsy)
=Coma (10 second stun, target is asleep when stun wears off)
=May have conditions to be an insta kill, such as stroke
(Would like to see this be a kill condition option more than coma)

Nifilhema: Masochism, Sensitivity, -Haemophilia, -Hemiplegy, +Pox (+Dizziness?)
=Passive Damage
=Massive damage
=Large bleeding (1500) or recurring (400 recurring 5 times every 6-8 seconds)
(Damage option)

Ashtorath: Impatience, -Loneliness, Recklessness, +Vertigo, Asthma
=Loss of Diag for a time (longer lasting effect)
NOTE: You still would see secondary effects, and be able to cure them.
=Loss of Focus Mind/Doubled Focus Bal + ticks (Random of- impatience, reckless, asthma + Base 400 damage) Tick is every 5-10 seconds. Each tick is -1- ailment –and- base 400 fire damage.
NOTE: The damage is –base- so that fireproofing will help control it, additionally it combines damage, with some curing hindering, as well as passive afflicting.
(Variable Option. Neither of these are meant to kill, or directly aide in an insta. However they both help build or stick ailments, and give more variety

Also note.. things can have more than 5 options.. so Nifilhema could –also- get Dizziness to help make up for demon only ails.

The Asthorath tick option may be too powerful


Thanks for the time on reading it all, looking for thoughts on the effect of each Lord. Baalephegar needs a more clear cut kill condition.. Asthorath could use ideas or which is better. And looking for opinions on which is each is best.. as well as ailment choices and if it should have more.

Fixed.

Yeah, wow. No.

That little lizard is cute.

Yes. Nihilists need an upgrade of cuteness.

Everyone likes cute things, even if it's just to punt them.

How about this.... Demon can draw up to three different hexes(randomize so they don't always draw something first) every so often regardless of what affliction they are doing.. they keep drawing so you can concentrate on throwing them and drawing more so you could send them faster... this could help, right?

perhaps adding slickness to ectoplasm


or even adding an instakill that required a certain set up of afflictions

First things first... a cuteness upgrade?

Ok with that out of the way.. lets see.. too powerful? Sure I will go with that, I will entirely remove the whole thing so long as we get somewhere.

Love the pic though

If they drew it we would need be informed or we would have to check the hexes in the room anytime they drew one, which could remove the speed advantage. If they informed us and we could choose the ones they drew.. and if it was fairly often.. that would be rahter nice step.

However inscribing a hex type into a symbol (provided you could use it in whammy/doublewhammy, and anytime you try to use the hex and its not in the room it just pulls use from the symbol) would be a highly valid option. It wouldnt enable us to use combinations without drawing, but it would allow us to pull something quickly as needed.. though 2 hexes is preferable (at 3 you are starting to get..... iffy) as it would allow doublewhammy combos with more potential.
Adding a power cost and making it last till symbol decay would be fine... possibly as a till log out def for 3-5 power. Conversely giving it a limited number and taking no power (such as investing 10 hex into symbol for no power.. but at end of 10 you would need put them back in) would also be good though a bit more questionable.

I would like another instakill option.. heres some jots on options for it....
-The Burst idea would work if curing and standards made it possible yet not OP
-Insta based on ailment #/type
-Insta based on particular combinations
-Something similar to soulless (although I dont really want to copy).. issue here is it would need be timed most likely.. and it would need be in nihilism without being too powerful for tarot. May require certain ailments for example to begin it.. but if its a long timer tumble would destroy it entirely basically unless they missed it or you got really lucky.

Thought worth noting.. some conditions are available:
-Ailments
-Number
-Health/Mana/Ego levels
-Hunger level

It has to be one of the following to decide when it kills:
-Timer
-Instant

Another option that may help is something similar more to mindblast.. in that it does varied damage.. but does damage to them based on how many mental ailments the person has, for instance having 4 might do 1600 to each while 1 would do 400 to each. Numbers are made up and are purely example.

It doesnt need be an insta.. even having something with more effect based on ailments could help.

This post is entirely to try to inspire ideas, get more feedback, and get thoughts on things.

I am specifically looking for a skill to either serve as an insta, aide (sufficiently) in getting a normal kill, have its own abilities effect (like mindblast type). Ideally I hope to have a skill that would help manage the different methods, yet would also have its own kill condition to serve as an insta.

In terms of non lethal, things to improve regular hexes use:
-Inscribing hex (1-3 yet to be set in stone)
-Get demon to draw them for you
-Investing hexes into demon
-An idea was presented on passive hexes.. it would remove the hexes from the room and afflict with them in the order they were present, and thrown at your opponent by (phantom|being|etc) tick unknown. This would help land things better together, I would like a short timer on it.. meaning they are all used quickly but you can try to draw out combinations faster or else use techniques such as passive vapors to help stack.
-Someting to prevent focusing, command stacking, diag, etc


EDIT: Envoys seem against ectoplasm giving slickness even if it were only for targetted form

i haven't kept up with the convo just was reading the last page and the demon idea is interesting but what about the other guilds that dont use demons and still have hexes? -not a hex expert so dont drink my blood if i said something wrong please?-

Wiccans have Hexes, which work fine with Waning/Choke.

You're still doing it. Hexes aren't gimped. Please, please don't treat them like they are.

About the instakill, I'm talking something in hexes so wiccans can benefit from it too... I mean, c'mon! they only have toad, Celestines have judgement, absolve and soulless. Nihilist have crucify, wrack and soulless... this could help wiccans and nihilists with hexes a lot by giving them more options

No.

Wiccans only have one option, but they do not need upgrades. In order to get an upgrade like another kill method, they would have to take a couple of downgrades to balance them. You can't just add new, powerful abilities for them without a bit of refactoring.

Wiccans don't need help.

A+ on the lizard picture.

I don't entirely agree with this. One, I think Wiccans of both flavors do just fine with damage, so they don't really have just one option. Two, I can see Wiccans reasonably getting another kill condition so long as it's not as powerful as toadcurse, especially since toadcurse isn't actually a kill. I escape death as a toad a good 40% of the time, and even when they do kill me, that Wiccan has to abandon the fight and chase me around for quite some time.

(And note three, I don't really consider them as having only two kill conditions. Shadowdancers have multiple ways to achieve each. Moondancers might only have aeon-anorexia for damage, but they have multiple options for toadcurse.)

Only very high level wiccans can manage with damage kills, and even then it's limited to specific classes. I can't speak for SDs, but MDs can only damage kill people with low magic resistance, even high level MDs will never hurt anyone with reasonable magic defenses. If you get toadcursed and get away, it's usually because the wiccan hasn't set things up properly. They should always have icewalls up before toadcurse. I see it like an instakill, but one that is difficult to setup since it requires flood/icewalls/something similar. I do think wiccans need another kill condition, but giving it to them in addition to their current hindering/afflicting and the relative ease of toadcurse (without walls and other proper setup) is a little to much. Also, if they are going to get another kill condition, it should be in one of their base skillsets instead of in hexes.

toad is the suckiest pretense of an instakill ever, to be honest i think another way to kill would be extremely good for wiccans, that or fix toad to actually be a kill