I say take away the non death factor of toadcurse. when the time runs out as a toad, it dies. To balance this out, take away chance for the cure to also turn the person kissing the toad into one. So yes if people want to trigger kissing toad lines in group fights go ahead. you might cure toads from both sides though. Another option would just be to lower the chance of turning into a toad after kissing one. course this could just be me trying to think of new things that I haven't really thought of how overpowered it could be.

I don't know about shadowdancer damage, but they do better with damage on average against all classes than moondancers and that's probably the only thing I can say for certain other than their damage type. Moondancers do good against bards/druids and mages who aren't using biofeedback. anyone without magic defs from their class. this isn't including skill level in magic either

Entirely off topic.. I have asked before what new way to kill Wiccans could get.. the reply was none. If you can think of one that is:
1) Not overpowered with current skills
2) Isnt easy to pull off (and I mean that in the toadcurse isnt easy.. just not really hard standard)
3) Has a cost or req to balance it

Then go head an inform me or your envoy and it can be looked at.

Back on topic....

Upgraded Impatience with Diag Block? Or two seperate skills there Xavius? Remember this doesnt stop you from curing and seeing secondary messages, that helps it not be insanely powerful.. focus mind prevention would stop curing so fast. Naturally you would need some setup and some piled afflictions to make use of this and they would still be able to see everything given, other than tail and contagion.. and demon though demon tends to be a pretty standard set.

Before I forget.. someone expressed how I couldnt think massive damage, passive damage, and large bleeding all together wasnt powerful. This leads me to believe people didnt follow the Demon Lords idea... Demon Lords idea had this format..

Demon Lord: Afflictions
= Suggestion

No one demon Lord had many things at once.. that meant large damage OR passive damage OR bleeding.. not all three.. same for the others.. it was a pick a '=' for each.

I can cure without diag, most do.. I can cure without focus mind.. just not as well.

However these wouldnt be an end all, focus balance would be a major step in the right direction... I also like the ideas for inscribing hexes (1-3) into symbol... the effect ends on logout.. or else symbol decay. As well as the damage to all 3 based on ailments when skill is used.. that would help if it wasnt too slow, by helping drain health and mana both to lead to damage or wrack.. though it doesnt help with sacrifice... something else could take that place.. although I still would like to see an insta option for nihilist hexists (in nihilism but easier for hexists than tarotists).

It would be fun to see utility in hexes, but unneccessary as their whole deal is offense. Although an insta option and maybe a variety skill would be helpful (damage to all 3 sounds like a variety skill because it works on more than one thing). Two together would allow some options and variety, whether its wrack, damage, or the insta.. with sacrifice semi possible but lacking for them (balance lock is still luck based for hexists since they can writhe on bal).

Keep it coming I think we are nearing the end of what is needed and what can be done!

Hmm forgetting something may post on it later..

I don't think an ability that causes 1500 bleeding after some setup wouldn't be too overpowered and it would help.

That's 4500 mana to clot it away. No thanks.

You can also chervil and kingdom takes effect.. you dont -HAVE- to clot it all off.. you can let it heal down a bit while they try to slay.. also the tick option is there.... so is just straight damage or % of max or something..

Although same kinda thing for mana... all 5 demon lord ideas were OR choices for each.. no demon lord has more than 1 '=' that would be used.

Still, I think that much bleeding is a bit much, nothing else, not even warrior lacerations with bleeding runes give anything near as much as that....


On another note..... Nihilist have how many instakills already??? Wrack, Sacrifice, and something else? If they took tarot they would have Souless too.... but that is besides the point...


How many instakills to ecologists/trackers get? nothing in that skillset... nothing.... trackers get it worse, cuz they dont get the crow/stag instas (if they have any, thought stagstomp is one though) along with thornrend....

So honestly, if you have 2-3 maybe even 4 instakills already... why want more? How about working on skillsets who are stuck with none or 1..... Like ummmm Tracking

Vesar actually had a real nice one, which made ya have to like hogtie them and do something else before ya could even do the insta.... I wonder if he ever submitted it....

Ok back on topic.... sorry..... No hexists don't necessarily need a instakill.... simply because they have tons of afflictions to work with and have a better chance at hard or soft locks on people... so if they really wanna instakill... hardlock someone and force them to eat a crotamine cake... that can be their instakill...

Options just make fights more fun. My current opinion:

-Effect to damage health mana and ego based on number of ailments.. (health scaling?)
-Inscribe -1- hex into symbol to not have to draw it for 3-5 power.. lasts till logout? or till symbol decay?

These wouldnt be kills but the damage would help try to foruce cures of one or the other...

Though still looking for something to slow or stop focus mind.. ideas? possibly somehting that could be combiend with above maybe with the health mana ego damage ability? And is the inscribe a hex in a decent aide ot help with the mindburstish effect?

Hexes using people could get an instakill if Healing could get 3.
Nuff said.

Alodia please do not comment again unless your comment is in some form of aide.

Thank you for your cooperation

I understand the language barrier, but we English speakers use hyperboles to express things very vividly. She basically said what I'd said in pages and pages back on the envoy wiki, just...much more efficiently.

Yes and i believe I said something about being constructive.. which you did in fact do. The purpose of this thread is ideas and the conversation of.. talking about healing needing 3 kills is not related...


I was also given thoughts that would help...

-Reduce power cost for crucify
-Allow inscribing of -1- hex into symbol
-Allow throwing two for 0 power uncloaked

I believe these were geared at more incorporating crucify/balance lock/bleed outs which could be made more viable.. especially if ectoplasm stopped being viewable through blackout

hrmm id just like to point out that most of what i hear is about the power cost of doublewhammy/whammy yet most of the hexes i throw are as a suppliment to night these days rather then my main form of offence and i dont think ive used double/sing whammies to kill any of the last 30 people..so it is possible to use them without any power cost..but then again not sure how viable it is for a nihilist with demon and not much experiance with nihilists other skilsets..

It's not viable at all, due to the fact that it's too easy to cure afflictions now and we have barely any ways for locking enemies.

About your earlier comment about toadcurse, I think toadcurse is silly and I believe placing it at 6p instead of its current 8p would make it fine. It would allow the Moondancer/Shadowdancers to be able to fling an extra double whammy or lessen the time it takes to regenerate the power up to 8 after wasting power on hexes.

Again, I stand behind my argument that I believe hexes should not be drawn. Reason why is because drawing is what wastes time and gives the enemy time to heal. Maybe make it able so that 1 hex may be flung, unmasked, without needing to be drawn? I'm sure that wouldn't be any way too powerful and would help hexes greatly.

I still stand behind the fact as well that:
-Sensitivity should not strip deafness. I heard it was rejected or some such but it could still be fixed in a way that only allow the sensitivity poison (ibululu?) to strip deafness, and regular curses should not. (angel/demon sensitivity, hex sensitivity)
-Allow blackout to fix numerous skills which are currently seen through blackout. (Ectoplasm, for one, I am still testing to see what can be seen through blackout.)
-Allow targetted ectoplasm to afflict with slickness. This would balance out because a room targetted ectoplasm will not cause slickness to everyone.

What is the current and suggested power cost for crucify and sacrifice?

Current is 7 power and -extremely- long equilibrium. Most people writhe out before I regain equ as a Mugwump. Even after scabies tick on crucify, they only are hindered for another second or two, after they writhe off, 7 power wasted.

Personally I'd love to see a 5p cost for crucify....

Does quickening then crucify help much?

That doesn't make sense to do....but yes quickening helps crucify. If I wasted the 3p to quickening, then crucified, then I'd have no power to sacrifice. And waiting for the other 3p to refill is just -asking- for the enemy to writhe off.

If it's reduced 5 power then you only need to wait for one power.

IF reduced...IF....we're talking about with current power cost here.

firstly you can't use your experiences in choke. they're already aeoned. They already hit a hex on impact so they spend a second to cure that then you can single throw hexes anyways. it's better to do so. I actually throw single unmasked hexes when people are aeoned to mess with their curing. most the time people turn reflexes off anyways, so either way it saves power or has the same effect as a whammy since the throwing times are the same. It's absolutely possible and much easier to use hexes without power when you have choke or if you're fighting someone who's skill level can't beat wane whoring+fae where they get stuck in aeon for even 5 seconds.

@Malarious no to #3. you do realize hexes are thrown at 1 second per right? maybe 1.1 with lag. this is the base speed for it. as a mugwump whiich ever hexen becomes, it goes under 1 second. .8-.9 i believe. so you're throwing two hexes in under a second? Thoros' idea about one hex unmasked might be better, but it kind of changes the whole idea they made about drawing entirely. Even so, it'd probably be too much for wiccans. So if that's considered at all, it'd have to be added to Nihilism or something.