The envoy process can be used for non-combat changes, but it isn't very often, because the envoys feel they can't afford to "fall behind" other guilds that are using all their slots for combat. Lots of good ideas get passed over time after time, ideas for utility skills, tradeskills, roleplaying-supportive changes, common skills, etc.

My suggestion is that one slot be reserved for non-combat-related changes. If one per envoy report is too much, maybe one every other report. If the slot is reserved for that, envoys will not be so reluctant to suggest these things.

For example, I suggested that commune bards gain a way to help the druids with the newly-onerous burden of carving totems. Perhaps a song that reduces the power cost, or makes the carving last longer. This would help ease the considerable burden on the druids, while giving the bards something to do to get involved and be needed by the commune, something the bard guilds desperately need. I tried to roleplay out developing such a song, but I was immediately directed by an NPC to the envoy process, where the idea apparently dead-ended since much-needed combat changes always take priority. (Hopefully Furien is about to contradict me!)

This isn't intended to diminish the importance of combat-related changes; they'd still be the lion's share of the envoy process. It's just reserving a tiny bit of space for everything else.

I agree with you! Now that one of the big reports has been submitted, I look forward to getting some fun utility things in. An extra slot would be helpful in that case, buuut I am not in a position to say if that's viable or not.

Yes please. Just because it's Combat that needs balancing the most, that doesn't mean skills that don't relate to combat should be so low on the priority list. Often small changes to RP skill don't get in, because all the slots are taken up with combat issues, but then those combat issues will just keep coming, because they're considered to be more important, so the RP suggestions will never be seen to.

An NPC directed you to the envoy process..?

Prolly a possessed Mob... though I hope said possessed Mob at least counced the Envoy process in IC terms?

Well, yes, I'm sure it was possessed...

But that's still an odd path for an NPC to take. Usually (if it's roleplayed to any extent) if a Divine takes interest enough to respond, they might try to make something out of it "for fun" (let the people feel their actions are changing the world, and so on, and so forth).

Directing to roleplay to Envoys seems a fair bit different from past precedent. Hm.

Not a good change in precedent either, in my opinion.

The Voice of Trialante said something about how she didn't remember any songs like that, "but your guild has a Songsmith" (name of our envoy position), "so perhaps she can create a new song." (From memory, not the exact words.) And there it rested.

I really don't think it was that bad. I feel sorry for the the admins having to deal with all my silly little initiatives. And it was the right answer in a sense. I wouldn't've minded a little encouragement to roleplay out the creation of the song a bit, though. But it's not that big a deal.

Well, an answer like that is better than complete silence anyway. I always feel a little silly when I try to talk to Mobs and don't get a reply. Kind of a 'Why's that girl talking to herself?' feeling. Of course, Admins can't possess a Mob every time you speak to them, and I don't expect that. But I sure do feel silly when I ask one a question and there's that awkward silence where they say nothing. Doesn't stop me from trying now and then, of course!

ETA: and to get back on topic, I think that non-combat oriented slots are a great idea! Combat is an important part of the game, but it isn't the only part. Each guild gets two regular envoy slots a year right? (that is how it works isn't it?) Well, maybe add 1 strictly non-combat oriented 'flavor' slot per year as well.

Yeah, good point. It's always great getting answered.

Yesterday while I was waiting for a spar partner, a pixie fluttered into the arena prep area, so I challenged him to a spar. He put up his dukes and then hit my reflection a few times, and we agreed to call it a draw. We shook hands (and he pinched my butt, of course). It was terribly cute.

That is adorable!

Now that I've gotten someone to let me use on of their free slots, I just have to talk to the envoys about how the sort of song works.

Hmm that is a neat suggested idea. Now if only there were a city equivalent *ponder*

I would just like to take this opportunity to promote the idea of group hunting and xp gain.

What oppurtunity? Quit hijacking!

Envoys do monthly reports, sometimes they do two reports on a month depending on how busy the Admin is. There's 16 guilds so far, each gets two suggestions. That's some 32 suggestions possible, and I think we need to trim the suggestions down to..20 or so? I'm never terribly clear on that. A lot of things get vetoed or removed after a time, some guilds don't use all their slots, some envoys are absent, so the number drops fairly quickly. If there's still too many for one report, a few have to get cut off for the next report.

Incidentally, the totem support song was turned down because "the cities have no problem maintaining statues, and enchanters are rarer than druids." The number of ways this is wrong is boggling. Elders revert every 2-3 years, sometimes in groups of 30 at the same moment, becoming immediately vulnerable and demanding hurried attention, especially since it's impossible to make them defend themselves or guard them. Carving them takes 10p each, so power refresh is a key factor; and there's probably twice as many of them as cities have statues. Statues last 15-20 years between upkeeps, don't become vulnerable at all, and can be upkept by an Artist at a leisurely pace with 1 marble, making them good for another 15-20 years. Enchanters aren't even involved; they set up the statues back in the years 100-110 and even then they used powerstones. Yeah, it's exactly the same situation!

I still think that we should have envoy slots reserved for non-combat skill suggestions. But it's disheartening enough hearing how much the envoy process is gamed for advantage. It's even more disheartening when ideas that make it through the envoy process are then rejected out of hand for reasons that don't hold up to five seconds' worth of informed scrutiny.

Maybe I should go to the Rants thread for this.