Depends on which runes you're talking about.

Focus on something unique with stag and crow. As wise as the stag or crow could also mean a boost in intelligence, or perhaps in cunning. Then you would have a boost in perhaps a stronger hit every so often, being the cunning of the totem in devising better attacks. Or maybe it would focus on the guile of the stag and crow, making those who learn more in the skill be able to influence better? Or just be able to add a certain boost to their crow and stag skills...

And really, do change that endurance paint. For F--ks sake, it is almost useless.. will power, maybe better.. or maybe make the user need food or sleep less... hence them eating healthy and their waste becomes "green paint" or crap... your look at it..

Syntax: PAINT FACE GREENMAN
Tints Required: greentint 2
This ceremony will paint the representation of the Greenman on your face, which will help speed in the recovery of your will and endurance.

Yeah..

Seriously, at least look at the Scrying Pool lists beforehand.

Shh.. i'm not addicted in the sense of, OMG there is a new update for so and so.. I'm going to remember every single frig--n possible stat of every single possible spell.. Good luck with you if that's your life...

In this case, you turned out wrong other cases you may turn right.

Greenman doesn't need a change in what it does, it's a lovely Paint if you're a Dreamweaver or a Warrior that needs to regain Endurance faster than the norm. It doesn't get used because it's something you use when you're not going to be out and about, unless you're in Dreambody, because you'll want Trueheart incase anyone with forcing moves jumpes you.

Hi, I used greenman EXTENSIVELY =P It was amazing for maintaining dreamform for as long as possible (I could nearly reduce the passive drain to zero with greenman/willpower gem/trans discipline. If only I had a willpower rune too...). It was also amazing for recovering willpower after hitting zero from harassing Celestians/Glomdorians/whomever Seren was fighting at the time, and it was nice for when I maintained HUGE melds during a large fight, with the absurd cost of embedding motes being what it was.

Like I told Kaervas when he wanted to remove the crow facepaint that detected dreamweavers to replace it with Trickster - there's no reason to remove a skill that is perfectly good and useful in certain situations to replace it with a skill that's generally useful. Just add the skill that's even better. If the first is only useful in specific situations, that unbalances nothing in the general case. This is especially true when dealing with already weak skillsets like Crow and Stag.

Add things, don't replace things =P

Thanks for the ideas so far! I need two more things, generally.

1) I need more ideas that envelop both Crowform and Stagform together (generic changes, like increased facepaint effects, etc.)

2) More ideas for Stagform by itself. There are a number of Crowform ideas alone, but this kind of an envoy submission is going to require that both get submitted at the same time imo. More Crowform ideas don't hurt, however!

Something that I'm thinking of:
Use the double facepaints thing.
Give Greenman / Deathmask a 5% damage reduction (in line with the "very minimal" that the admin gave when they rejected the 10%).

Crowform / Stagform could then bring it to 10%, but the *Forms would just be a 5% increase instead of 10% from nothing. Idea for using the least-used facepaints is that you would then want to actually make a choice between the two (bonenose or deathmask? Greenman or trueheart? I'd say that there's situational use for both. Once bonenose's bug is fixed, I'd probably prefer it for hunting sharks or aslaran or other not-heavy-damaging bone-breakers.)

I still believe that the skillsets do need the option for a minor reduction, which is considerably less than that of their counterparts-- but does exist as an option. In this case, it'd be something you would have to choose to use each time you log on, above and beyond the *Form cast, and limits some of your other options.

Roleplay would be something like, with Deathmask: "With the sure knowledge that you will triumph and gorge on the corpses of your fallen foes, you will pay less attention to pesky distractions." Eh, not explaining it very well, but it would work a lot like Numb does in a sense (you can force your body to feel no damage for a while, and when Numb ends you take damage you would have, minus a certain amount reduction) It'd just take the damage with the reduction immediately instead of delaying it as Numb does. Greenman would likely be something about regenerating a portion of the damage immediately, your body knitting part of itself back together in response to a blow.

Also looking into some uses of carrion that Ciaran suggested, but as I said, that requires a similar Stag-counterpart.

Again, thanks for the ideas. Keep 'em coming.

You know..... thinking about it, the one thing that would have made me keep up Stagform is having it last through death. I never used it because it wasn't necessary, nor THAT helpful, and certainly not worth it to use when I was likely to die relatively quickly due to my suicidal solo tactics. Similarly, reducing the power cost to 5 would also have made me use it more. However, that doesn't change the fact that it's only a minor bonus.



Some other suggestions I have are (and I'm just throwing these out there):
- Goring an already impaled opponent (by someone else, obviously) instakills at 50% health instead of 25%
- (I'm really not sure what a good suggestion for improving the Swoop instakill is, so I won't make one)
- Swoop can be done from the skies as well as the trees (I can't remember if this is already true or not)
- Swoop and Gore hit through shields and breaks the shield, but Gore cannot impale if it does so
- Swoop and Gore cause deepwounds to the chest/gut
- Stagform gives +2dex or +1con
- Stagform allows you to LEAP (via Horse Totem) while prone
- Headbutt while in Stagform causes bleeding in addition to or instead of damage
- For the facepaint empowering idea:
--- Crowsfeet could be empowered to also indicate when a phased being enters the local area (but the indicator line should be different), or it could indicate when a phased being LEAVES the room in addition to entering if it doesn't already
--- Greenman could, instead of what Xenthos suggested, be made to give health regen separate from leveled regen, like Mercy. That isn't QUITE damage reduction, but it does fit with the idea of the skill, and is something that could be doubled quite easily. Of course, this is on top of the level 1 regen from Stagform, so it would give Hartstone quite a bit of regen, but is that a bad thing?

Leaping while prone would be like insta-tumble most of the time. Although I suppose you could use sprawled instead, which probably what you meant.

Yes, crowsfeet twitches your nose when a dreambody enters or leaves. There's just a bug when dealing with a dreambody moving through the aether (hopefully being fixed soon) (entering an archway on Ethereal, for example)

swoop goes through shields and all I know is that you need to be perched to do it so I'm guessing you can't do it from the skies. Oh but the second part could be added, it goes through shields, but currently doesn't break the shield.

Nope. Doesn't go through shields any more. Admin said it was, "Intended to be that way, but shouldn't actually be that way on further review," so it's been fixed.

You could swoop from the skies for a short time, but it was horribly buggy. When they did some other changes, they removed that completely again.

Only see entrance, sadly. Can't tell when they run.



Swoop hasn't worked from the sky since that big Crow report we did a year ago and it was made to, you know, not suck so horribly. You could have made old swoop a local area attack and it would have been perfectly balanced.

(Then it was overpowered for a short while, which was amazingly fun, even if I felt bad using it.)

aww that's kind of lame. I fiirst found out about it first hand. it was cool cause I didn't know how to stop it and it eventually killed me. i think it's fine that way though because you keep your shield and all you have to do is move.

Sprawled is what I meant to say. Oh, and maybe have leap not cost balance if it fails, I hated that =P




I never knew the specifics of Swoop. Does it cost power? Does it deal mana damage if it doesn't instakill? Does it cause bleeding?

Gore is 2p, as a note.

Swoop requires the following.

You must be perched in the branches above the target (same room, elevation above, perch defence). It does some cutting damage, and the TrueCaw effect (10% + 300 manadrain as I remember it). If you're using it by itself, someone can just sparkleberry past it all for the most part-- Aesyra thought otherwise, so I spent a full arena match doing nothing but spamming it on her. She was assisting by happily climbing down every time I swooped so there was no delay at all.

Aesyra doesn't quite count. It's not an efficient kill, but if they help you out like that, it gets the job done.

Some people do constantly swing down. I see it alot.

They usually do something like "walk away" if they're able to swing down, though.