Not sure? Look at some books!

"True Magick" by Amber K
"The Idiots Guide to Wicca and Witchcraft"
"The Everything You Need to Know about Paganism Book"

I hear that a lot from people that aren't Buddhists, or people who have sort of synthesized a handful of Buddhist tenets into a more generic outlook (this tends to be a popular Western approach to Buddhism).

Buddhism does not revere a particular deity, which is probably where the ambiguity comes from, but they do have holy texts, temples, rituals, prayer, ritual clothing and adornments, an ecclesiastical hierarchy, and an authoritative head and spokesman for its teachings - said spokesman being rather clear on the point that Buddhism is not compatible with other religions.

It just appears to me that to go the "Buddhism is not a religion" route, you have to cut out quite a bit of Buddhism, and you could do that with nearly any religion, really.

Ah, they have a "cut out everything" version of Paganism.

It's called "New Age". e_e;

For those who don't understand what I mean, New Age cuts out the influence of Gods and Goddesses of any sort.

Yes, it happens a lot in the West for various spiritual traditions, although it may be more of a challenge to point to "Orthodox Paganism" since most of the sources for paganism didn't write any teachings down.

I have friends, for example, who refer to themselves as Muslim, but really, they've co-opted certain Muslim teachings into a more generic framework that really looks very little like Islam. I'm not judging them (they are my friends, after all), nor am I really in a position to say who is or is not a "real" Muslim (I'm not a Muslim in any sense), but just to say that, in the West, it seems to be a trend to extract a certain percentage of a religion's teachings and call it that religion.

Whether adherents of that religion would agree that you're still practicing that religion may be a different ballgame.

Eh. Religions are religions. Just another path. There are many, all lead to the same place.

I'm pretty sure they disagree about that, too.

So did I.

I don't mean to sound rude, and I apologize in advance if that's the case, but your last statement was surprisingly bland, and rather dismissive. It doesn't seem that much thought was put into your response.

To someone who happens not to be a part of an organized religion, yes, I can see how one might be able to wave their hand and casually lump all of those belief systems into some obscure morass of meaningless roads that all reach the same destination. Spirituality and religion are very important to quite a lot of people, and form the foundation of both lives and organizations. To say that, "Eh, religions are religions" is, to me, immensely disrespectful of those beliefs and the gravity with which their adherents treat them.

It also doesn't address the point Demetrios was making in his post, that being the "Westernization" of many religions (Buddhism, most notably) by just hitting certain highlights and ignoring the remainder of the actual religion itself. These "philosophies" become something similar to, but divergent from, the originals, losing much validity and depth in the process.

I'd also disagree that all religions "lead to the same place." Some teach reincarnation and spiritual advancement, some teach an ultimate end and absolute bliss or suffering, some teach that the soul simply rejoins the earth, or even that man himself is the closest thing to a god we'll ever know. Ostensibly, they're all about the elevation of the worshipper, but neither the methods nor the reasons remain the same across the board, nor even precisely what any sort of enlightenment or advancement might entail.

I once witnessed what I'm pretty sure was some sort of Pagan thing. It was near Halloween, and I was visiting the Rollwright stone circle with my family, and around dusk, some people in robes came along and stood in the circle and stuff. They had a bubbling cauldron and a jack-'o-lantern and stuff. They asked other visitors to join in, and some did, and the stood in a circle and passed round a small cartwheel and everyone said "There is no death, but life after life" and they prayed to spirits of the cardinal directions and they also prayed to gods from many many different belief systems like Osiris and Thor and stuff, which seemed a bit odd.

I don't mean any dig whatsoever at the Pagan religion as a whole, but in the ritual, ceremony, whatever it was I witnessed, it was kind of interesting, but I didn't like the taking of deities from totally different belief systems part. It just made it seem a bit mishmashed.

Disclaimer: I mean no offence in this to Myrkyr or anyone else, it's just how I saw the particular ritual I saw. I know there are loads of different varieties of modern paganism and everyone does it differently, etc.

Chances are they were either Eclectic or Chaos Magicians.

There's a group of Pagans that believe that there is the God and the Goddess, and that Gods and Goddesses are just facets, just parts of the God and the Goddess.

There's also a group of Pagans that believes that Gods and Goddesses are just facets (parts) of the Great Spirit.

The bolded part would imply a "All lead to the same place conclusion." (I just might add however, that some religions are about the elevation of the physical in general not elevation of the worshiper in particular.)

This would be like saying "Economic theory is economic theory, they all lead to the same place. ( i.e. a way to view the workings of an economy.)"

You're free to disagree.

I used to be Catholic. Then, I thought Catholicism was the only way.

... all paths lead to a happy soul. If your soul isn't happy on it's current path, you're on the wrong path.

That's all.

I'm torn here.

One, there's the whole "All religions are equal" debate that I could get incensed over. Verithrax will jump in. Then Daganev will jump in. The rest of you will get trampled and left on the wayside, as might be just and proper. It's always incredibly amusing, but we've done that several times now.

But...this is new fodder. She's one of those. You all know what I mean. Bemoans the watering-down of the ancient religions while openly practicing eclectic Wicca (which is, in itself, an eclectic watered-down reinterpretation of rituals that no longer have meaning in our lives). Asks around for other pagans like they're some sort of elite group of enlightened, liberated spirits. Going to go out on a limb here...female, aged 14-24, if asked before seeing this post, would quickly admit to family problems. The proto-emo that went out of style when New Age lost its luster (people do eventually figure out that they don't have magical powers) and the modern emo took its place. Now, I have no issue with pagans in particular. The only thing I have against Shiri is his nationality. Granted, being British is a really huge shortcoming, but he can't do much about it. I do have issues with holier-than-thou by association types, though. Christian, pagan, or crazy man in the desert, we can all have a lot of fun as a group taking them down a notch.

Option number three is to smile and be nice to her. What fun is that, though?

So. Everyone chime in and vote on the future of this thread!

I'm a Discordian when the mood strikes. Does that count?

Wait, Shiri's a pagan?

Oi! Get off of my case! Don't act like you know me, because you don't!

I do not think Pagans are some group of "enlightened, liberated spirits". I know a lot of Pagans who are plain out crappy, do drugs, beat kids, etc. I know Christians and Muslims and other like that, too, though.

I don't have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. At least, I should hope not. I don't believe I've said a thing yet to come off that way. Point out where I did to prove me wrong, though, and I'll concede.

I made no such assumptions about you, or about anybody else here. What gives you the ability to make one about me? Do you enjoy looking down at people? Does it make you feel good?

Now. That wasn't an assumption. That was a question.

If you haven't a nice thing to say, probably best to keep your trap shut.

Haha, oh man.

Let it not be said that you didn't bring the impending flames upon yourself.

Oh dear.



Arix, get a move on with the popcorn machine.

Personally, I have to say that the assumptions people appear to be making seem to be very half-assed.

Look, this thread was made to find other Pagans that play Lusternia.

That's it. End of story.

I wasn't trying to open up a huge debate. Debates should be on their own threads.