I think one problem with Lusternia is that there's relatively little PK on prime because no one wants to declare on each other. Naturally, this helps shield the weaker people from the lands of PK. However, the people who actually WANT to fight have difficulty doing so because they have to worry about the avenger if they don't know that the other person will drop suspect. Which sometimes leads to people just staring at each other waiting for the other to declare.

My idea is:

Make a "militia" or something for each city/commune. Allow them to mark other cities/communes as "hostile". Glomdoring/Serenwilde and Celest/Magnagora would automatically be hostile towards each other.

Members of a militia that is hostile to another militia would be able to attack each other without the Avenger caring. So, those in the militias would be able to fight each other as much as they want, and everyone else wouldn't have to worry about PK if they didn't join. It'd make the game more enjoyable because then the people who WANT to fight each other can do so without worrying about Avenger bothering them, and it's a totally optional system so those who don't fight don't have to join.

Thoughts?

Player restraint. Joining a militia shouldn't open you up to being jumped 24/7 or during the few times you want to bash, if the answer to this is, 'Then don't join at all', then the whole argument would go in a circle.

Well... you DON'T have to join. That's the point :/

Uh, ya, agreed. And from what I've seen lately, there's hardly such thing as player restraint when it comes to things happening on Prime.

And I don't think there's a 'You don't have to join' deal for Champions, in most cases.

If you can make it not like the Mark system in Achaea (basically, you join and you get jumped the moment you leave town), then I would be for it.

As in, make militias only open in the city proper or in villages. If you raid the city proper, anyone (from that city/commune) can fight you and not worry about avenger, but in a village (not including a village revolt), then if you're a militia than only other militia of the city/commune may fight you. That makes it fair.

Mayhaps Avechna's affect could just be lessened on the joiners, then (ie. like 1-3 months between attacks instead of 30?)

Only when killed by other militia though.

Yeah, that's what I mean.

Then if it's completely optional to join with the knowledge that the moment you join it, you won't be left alone, what incentive is there? The way you're proposing it, the only ones who join will be the ones who didn't really care about the Avenger (or have preexisting agreements about nullifying status) in the first place, imho.

What Theomar mentions is why exactly I see it as...off.

Damn edits: Those proposed fixes make it a bit better.

Lemme clear that up: In a non-village revolt, anyone could kill you (if you were a militia or not). But, if a non-militia kills you, a militia, they still get avenger. Also, if a non-militia attacks you, you should be able to fight back and kill them without worrying about avenger.

Oh, yeah. It wouldn't do anything unless BOTH people are militia members. And it wouldn't do anything off-plane or in a revolting village, those would still be open PK.

Well, if you are in a Militia, then you kinda HAVE to be a good fighter, so if you are jumped, it's not like you're gonna be a noob and just sit there, you'll definitely fight back!

There should also be restrictions to join the City/Commune's Militia. Make a level constraint, like 65-70 or something.

I like the idea for the fighters who hate the avenger system and just want to get on with the fighting, maybe something like forsaking the avenger instead of the militia though so that champions don't feel obligated to do something like this it being a city/commune thing and for a fee you can plead to the avenger for his protection again. Maybe showing on honours that they aren't under avenger protection and can be killed by anyone, but they can't kill those under avenger protection without declaring and such. I may not know what I'm talking about though.

Also, given the small size of Lusternia, I can easily see this as what happens:

Group 1 has 5 pkers join, Group 2 has 0 pkers join, given there's no real incentive. Group 1 now has no one who wants to play with them.

Or

Group 1 has 5 pkers join, Group 2 has 1-2 pkers join. Group 2 now gets constantly ganked repeatedly by Group 1 and eventually leaves / members of Group 2 get no peace and quiet to hunt/influence/RP/whatever.

I'm not against the idea, I'm just against griefing and am trying to iron out the kinks.

if you're so against griefing why are you the most bloodthirsty of us all!
14) Sojiro: "We should raid or something."
Me: something like no, we have no chance
15) Sojiro: "Psh, who's around."
16) Sojiro: "Oh damn, you're righ."
17) Sojiro: "Give it a few!"

Lies and propaganda.

I think this is a good idea, perfect as is. Join PK on prime, and you can kill others who are in it, and be killed by them, you have to get the benefits with the drawbacks.

I mentioned this a year ago. There should be a way to reject the avenger protection willingly, and those who reject it can do PK vs. PK with no limits. This counts as a flag, but it makes sense with the concept of avenger and Avechna.

There are some concerns though.

• It should be hard to switch. Otherwise people will switch as soon as they are having a bad day, and I can see a lot of problems if people quickly switch back and forth. Make it cost something to switch, or force no switches for two real-world weeks.
• It could lead to peer pressure from guilds and orgs. It should never be forced upon a player base, but be an individual choice. If Magnagora as a whole says "you must reject Avenger protection", and Glomdoring says "You must never reject avenger protection", then there's a problem.

Alternatively, y'know, players could just freaking agree that they will never use Karma or Avenger for strategic org or battle related purposes, as a sense of personal (OOC) honor. For instance, just decide "Hey, I'm going to be a combatant, and want to fight other combatants. I will not use Karma or Avenger to protect my Organization or my Avatars/Cosmic Lords since that's not what it was intended to be used for, because that is cheap and metagaming".

I'd like to think we have a player base that could agree to that code of conduct. Maybe that's too idealistic though.

I agree with all this. People'd never just abandon the avenger system though (although I do drop suspect on anyone who asks).

Too idealistic for any online community.