I largely agree with Narsrim here, although I don't agree with Shamarah's solution. It's been tried twice and it's failed twice. This is why we study history.

Thing is, only Ethereal is really set up for casual PvP. Talented fighters don't sit around on the elemental planes. Lowbies go to the elemental planes, then they go back down. Cosmic is about the same, but geared towards mid-level influencers. Astral is disjointed, teeming with really big and scary aggressive critters, and has insanity--not really a place for a fair fight. Add in discretionary powers and raiding is just outright annoying.

Recurring fights are hard to balance. As an individual, I find that depressing. I liked conflict quests a whole lot, and with them gone, I basically log in to my manse and have people check CWHO for me to see if it's safe to come out. From what Narsrim is saying, it sounds like construct battles are going the same direction. I do understand how draining it can be to be forced to fight constantly, though. Scheduled fights aren't much better. We don't have a large enough playerbase to support two separate camps of casual and hardcore gamers, and the casual players feel the repercussions of what happens whether they're here or not.

I wish I had a good suggestion for you. There are too many common areas to just open up free PK. (The substantially larger MMORPGs seem to control PK by putting the opposing camps far, far away from each other--that'd require almost a complete rewrite for us, unless you want to release Gaudiguch, Hallifax, and Ackleberry with a dozen new races in aetherspace, taken over by creatures hellbent on the destruction of Lusternia, add in an aether taxi system, and make Prime areas mostly for low-level bashing and the bubbles for high-level bashing, with the highest ones closest to the middle between the two factions. Do you hear your builders and coders crying for mercy yet?) The PK flag's tried and trashed. Limited PK's not that great. So. I don't know.

Because PK is the only aspect of Lusternia that matters. Ever.

Honestly, I agree that the Undervault should probably be Open Pk given its size and history, but the attitude of some pkers acting like they're entitled to PK (and summarily forcing them on others at the most inconvenient times and usually with a piss poor reason) sure doesn't help convince the vast majority of Lusternian nonpkers to give fighting a shot.

To be more constructive, thanks for the PK forgive indeed.

Edit: Just read Xavius' post, he also made a lot of sense, specifically in reference to Narsrim's post, but like him, I don't think this is the solution either.

Well, toss up your own solutions if you've got 'em. I do think this is a problem that needs fixing.

Yet I know several people who have played Lusternia for RL years and never been involved in any sort of PK.

Boring, dull, and unenjoyable is relative.

A construct that when touched, drains power from the nexus and makes someone immune to flux for an hour. Can only be used if above a given rank in city/commune, to keep people from making alts for wasting the other city's power.

Player conflict is like spice. Too little makes a dish dry and dull. Too much makes it overwhelming and jarring.

I always hear that PK should be on the planes, but there is very little to cause it.

Let's review the outer planes for conflict.

Ethereal -

Etherglom - Liveforest, lulz.
Etherseren - Liveforest, lulz.
Faethorn - The only really potential area for conflict - but nothing to fight over. And then Maeve keeps barking at us. Like we pay attention to her anymore.
Catacombs - Restricted to those players who are of level to survive the mobs - perma-rift decreased conflict.
Glade of the Sleeping Goddess - You're kidding me, right?

Elementals -

Water - Discretionary powers.
Earth - Discretionary powers.

Cosmics -

Nil - Discretionary powers. Lack of angels.
Celestia - Discretionary powers. Lack of demons.

Astral - Insanity

Ultimately I think the simplest solution (well, not the SIMPLEST, but it doesn't require an extra system to be created) might just be to make a bunch of off-prime areas that are worth going to and fighting over.

Ideas on how to encourage fighting off-prime will always be looked at! You may recall that's how we got constructs. (As someone pointed out, constructs seem to be a bit difficult to bring down, and we are looking into that.)

FYI, "a bunch of off-prime areas" could potentially take 6-12 RL months and set several other projects dramatically back. Not that I don't think it wouldn't be worth it for a good idea, it's just that I hear people cavalierly throwing out "oh just add a bunch of areas" and I don't think they realize what that would really entail. (Building is simply harder than some people think and I know of some builders who work on projects for literally years.) Modifying existing other planar areas is more workable.

The question of course is why would organizations be fighting over these off-prime areas? What would make fighting worth it? Would it be crippling to not hold any of these areas? If not, then would anyone bother? Would it be an endless exhausting grind? Would organizations hold areas for periods of time (i.e., they'd be timed)? Though I know some people fondly remember conflicts quests, the actuality was that it made life hell for a majority of players and completely demoralized certain organizations. We definitely don't want to revisit that.

I had and idea a while back about having aetherbubbles with insane half-formed in them that could be convenced to help a city/commune by doing a quest. Weak enough that they can be killed during a raid. I'm not sure what they could give a commune/city other than power, which they have enough of already.

Maybe, just maybe, the answer is to make it a place that people will want to be completely independent of any system of rewards. Make it the best bashing ground ever and put it in a bubble very near the aetherplex.

Orrr...

I would fight for this.

Nerf liveforest and discretionary powers? Either make them not so obstructive to raiding - a hindrance, but something you can battle on through - or make them cost SOO much power that they can't be used every time someone raids, but can still be used for those few times when you've just got no hope of defending adequately and you really can justfiy the power cost.

If I was given the opportunity to generally 'go ahead, kill Maeve, and we won't smack you for it', my I would love to take it. Charge into that stupid tree and kill every guard and that whimsy little brat I could <3

Personally, Maeve would be neat to replace. Kailak, the Lady of the New Moon could come down from the Moon Aetherbubble. Because she's a Moon Spirit, but she represents the weakest phase of the Moon, there's a lot of conflict that could be drawn if she ruled faethorn.

I don't think make Undervault Open PK would be terribly good, either. It'd really just be there to grief people in, and all the PK down there really takes place in enemy territory, the Hives and the Prison. Making the whole tunnels and things just opens the door to running into groups of cave fishers whilst some griefer is having the time of his/her life chasing you.

About Maeve, I wouldn't mind it if she wasn't replaced by anyone so long as she was made killable and could be used as a commodity in soups or something.

If that's not possible, I guess I'm still waiting to see her complete and total deletion.

ooh ooh!! drive the cities to work together with some event where they need try to capture the fae. Turn faethorn into the primary fighting zone. no powers. no need for guards since both forests have safe spots to enter. it gives a nice dynamic change that everyone wants every now and again. The communes will likely hesitantly try and cooperate and then eventually start to work together when things get serious. Cities can already have their angels, they can't meld, but they don't really need to. (druids are worthless outside their demesne anyways and need the meld) Just fix the part where mages can't break demesnes in faethorn. and make it breakable. aquas can still cast effects in that one western wing of faethorn. I mean the advantage is leaning towards the communes. but I think it's doable as long as mages can break demesnes and terrain them top slow down remelding. plus they have beckon and we barely have enough serenguard for a single blocker. More of the top-tier fighters are in the cities anyways. I realize this could get really out of hand if it's just completely open. But it could start off as an event. and depending how that goes either leave it as a recurring event to be handled by the divine influencing each city, say telling their respective city or cities they need the fae for some project or experiment. or I suppose it could be a regulated event too but someone said everything regulated doesn't help.

personally, the wildnodes system gets overrided too much. I've been noticing it closer to every 3 weeks. it should've happened today but didn't. it didn't happen last week. village revolts are really spread out now too. they're what like every 8-10 days now? and then every three or so you get a peaceful one which means you have to wait another 8-10 for a violent one. peaceful ones are lame for me cause Seren's got decent debaters just not all the titans with monstrous egos and all the chanters and I heard we had a nerfed moondance light. violent revolts are already pretty peaceful. most people can sit in sanctuaries as needed so it doesn't force fighting. Wildnodes should be more frequent because it doesn't force participation really. often times seren and Glom don't participate or participate minimally for points then leave. and then when it does happen all the fighters who want to fight get to. i miss the more frequent village revolts, but I can see how it was a problem for others. at least increase wildnodes. it sets up outer plane fighting. it doesn't coerce involvement except maybe from Mag. They're always power hungry. It certainly doesn't have as much urgency to participate as a revolt does.
And lastly I think the construct fights got all messed up because colossus kept getting nerfed. Actually, I really enjoy ship battles a lot. yes that's probably biased since we get the Avaerin which is a dream ship for any aetherfight. but even so, I've enjoyed just sitting and bombarding and chatting with the crew or the armada or shooting each other. The colossus nerf where if it's more damaged, it has slower balance, should be taken away and any damage penalties too for that same condition (if they exist, can't remember the post). Bombardments I don't really know if they're fine or not? I just do them, i haven't been measuring them so someone else can give an opinion about them. it's probably better to play things safe when increasing pk opportunities. Right now it seems as if most of the Lusty population isn't in the fighters, which would just mean if anything new is created for pk, then keep it regulated on a schedule like all the other things. That, or just increase the frequency of one or two of the other events we already have. Then again from the business sense, the fighters tend to be the bigger spenders on credits. ahh too much thinking

they came up with the whole construct conflicts for that. It was an awesome idea. It started off too much for most people, perfect for the ones who just love to fight. But it got set back more because it has a big sense of urgency involved with it when the weakenings do happen and one is raided. Now I feel they're too far apart, or something is just wrong with the damage given from a colossus or bombardment. I haven't done it much but even two ships bombarding constantly. won't get anywhere as long as the org keeps up with healing with sparkle during the weakening and then kegs in between. The only thing I really dislike is how hard it is for the raider. It was already hard for the raider and it got even harder with the changes to help the defending side. there's shrines and ectera. The main problem for me has always just been getting to the other sides nexus world. flying takes forever. we can't all be commanders for fuse because aetherfights do occasionally happen and people do actually need empaths and combateers. We need some sort of basic aethership teleporting in regular aethercraft or some way to teleport between ships across the aethers or even just from nexus worlds. that would also help keep the surprise of the attack more. oh no, all my highlighted enemies are gone from QW. we're in trouble now. but that tends to mean the attacking group is in trouble since the defending group will just set a trap.

Aaaaahhh, add paragraphs prz.

sorry! i kinda of just type as my mind rambles on into one thing. was never the best with papers

Krellan's word vomits are pretty fun, it makes you think while you read. Mainly because you're trying to figure out what his point is.

I have the perfect word for the situation: Logorhea.

Such a lovely word, but so few occasions to use it.

The thing is, Krellan's points are generally worth hearing, it's just so much work, like drilling for oil.