hmm i don't know what's considered poor or moderate to you, but the first weakening was no defense. this second weakening was just about the same as the first except instead of giving up they kept coming, so I'd call that poor defense I suppose. I still feel it should definately have gone down with those two weakenings.

Most of the battle is the actual constructs fighting, though. This last one I'd say was moderate. The defence kept you guys from focusing as much as you could have otherwise, and I had Tael pretty much completely "locked down."

The next step up would be "good," in which instance the attackers are slowly driven off the ground and mostly bombard to assist the colossus battle.

The final step would be "excellent," in which case all the attacking ground and aethership forces are destroyed, but even in this case the colossus can still do some damage.

How 'bout we fix that scroll lock?

Eh... if you decide not to bother with gears except when you can enact a revarsal, and you have people focusing, you can still do a fair bit of damage (not all of the 4900 was bombarding, after all. Nowhere near all).

If you can do 4900+ in one weakening with a scroll lock on your colossus, and there was a potential for a deal more on top of that that wasn't taken advantage of-- I'd say it's actually not as bad as feared, though it does give the defender a massive advantage-- give it more than one Weakening with a fresh Colossus each time and you can't really lose. Again, I'd say about 3 weakenings, though I can see a few ways to get it in 2 even against moderate defence (definitions seen above).

see that's the point entirely. one person, you, caused a poor defense to go to moderate because we can't touch you. and You know how rare it is to get 15+ people for anything. It's even harder when we only have a specific timeframe we can actually use those people. We did that much cause we were scroll locked and had a ridiculous amount of people plus bombardments. Half of that is going to get healed by kegs from what you said.

And we also can't touch the Colossus operator... that battle is between the Colossus / Construct. That's the way it's set up.

and you just said that the defender has the massive advantage, which needs to be balanced out or toned down, the entire point of this thread. That's why the whole let's get rid of scroll lock or tone it down.

And even with that advantage, it's still possible to take it down in 2 weakenings if you've got such numbers, 3 with fewer.

we had such numbers it didn't happen, and you weren't even piloting the first time. Pentu was, she was the one getting scroll locked to my knowledge.

Hint: Tael screwed up a few times this time, and there were ways you could have done more damage.

The chance was there. Not really the game's fault you didn't seize it.

This thread look to me like trying to sneak in a change that will make your side win more easily, rather than trying to achieve balance. I could be wrong, though.

Plus I wasn't scroll locked the entire time during the last weakening, once I figured out what I the gears/girdle/scroll etc did I actually had you scroll locked towards the end. But we ran out of sparkleberry and I couldn't make more cubes, so we had no healing about half of the time.

yes well he's done that a few times now, like building the colossus in the same room so that the construct gets to attack while it's even being set up, having triggers on his first time and sipping cause of wrath and destroying it. I don't even get a chance to operate these things.

@pentu ahh cool. I had no idea, it just looked like we did good since it wasn't Xenthos and I was free to bombard from the start.

@Silenus to my understanding these constructs were never meant to be permanent buffs. Currently they basically are. The likely hood of taking one down with everyone's player base is small. I think Magnagora can be the exception to this because Celest lost just about everyone and Mag's still strong and if they ever went on a nexus raid or two they'd destroy every single one of Celest's constructs since they have no one to defend and likely no one who knows how to operate. Of course all they really need is someone like Xenthos and they'll have to make 3 good raids in a row which is still hard to do because of the complete randomness that can put weakenings at weird times.

I still think taking out keg healing altogether is an okay idea if you add in active scroll healing, but I mean if you keep scroll-lock, take away the balance loss that colossus get as it receives more damage. People feel it's too hard to destroy constructs and these are just ideas to make less hard. let's see...there's also that whole mini battles off a systemized raiding that would be cool too. But that's basically accepting that these constructs are now actually permanent and that we rely on disabling instead every time we want to raid a supernal/demon lord/avatar. I mean I guess that's okay too. I think it's really nice to have a way to stop experience loss for everyone. Most people care more about their experience than they do fighting. Most of the ones that like fighting more are already titans, know they're going to get titan/demi eventually, or don't care for titan/demi.

Yes, I screwed up in that offensive. It's actually not me screwing up though, it's actually me not being able to touch you. You have nothing to lose by just constantly scrolling me, I lose -time- when I try to keep you scrolled. Half way through, I just said eff it and just kept hitting you. Scroll is too heavily defensively inclined Xen, and you know it.

Also, SHAME on you for dismantling the Wyrden Tree. Shame, shame, shame. Admin, plz make it so that you -can't- dismantle a construct if it's taken too much damage. Seriously, we've been working on destroying that thing for awhile and they stop us from taking it's power by dismantling it? Very lame, if you ask me. If not removing the ability to dismantle, at least create a stiff penalty for doing that. We caused all of the damage, we -should -get something for it.

So far, the battles are imbalanced. Defense has too much favour. When you have someone like Xenthos defending (I.E. Knows at least two cents worth of what to do) then your offense fails. No matter how many people you have, no matter how many are focusing. It's lame, no matter what. Scroll, in my honest opinion, should be changed to do something different.

My two main suggestions:

- Remove Gears/Scroll effect
- Implement Deepwounds for Colossi/Constructs

Ideas I like, but are overall unsure of:

- Causing the Constructs to do less when damaged. It's shaky, but disable quests are interesting


As a joke, we could always have multiple security in parts of a colossi or construct.. Go Voltron! >.>

simple solution would be that the construct should be above 2/3rd health to dismantle

As I told him when he first suggested that-- that solution doesn't work at all. I mean, you can just move funds out of the Power Ministry (just say there's no point in paying for a construct that you aren't going to be able to defend the next Weakening).

His other idea, making a Construct lose some extra power when it's "destroyed" based on how damaged it is when it goes away has some validity. That is, if it's 0% damage and is destroyed (upkeep not paid or deconstructed), it costs 0 extra power. If it's 50% damaged, it costs 50% of x-power. At 90%, it costs .9*x power. If it's at 0 health (that is, actively destroyed by someone else), it has no extra cost (the way it is now).

X-power would make sense being the power that would be gained destroying it, that is, 1/2 the build cost.

I didn't even know you could dismantle it. Did you get all the comms back and power back? And were you able to rebuild it instantly?

No, you don't get anything back. It says goodbye on the Commune aether, and poofs. (Something like, "I return to the shadows from whence I came!")

Then it takes the standard 7 days to rebuild.

Okay, this is dumb.

I can't find fault with the commune doing this, but the fact that it's not systematically punished is dumb.

You should lose chunky amounts of power for dismantling damaged constructs.

Otherwise conflict dies.

Again.

ooh so the only thing it did was stop us from gaining I think it's supposedly half the power? I don't see anything wrong with that then. Personally I didn't even think we were gonna be able to finish it off.