Ashteru2007-07-20 21:42:05
QUOTE(Elostian @ Jul 20 2007, 07:21 PM) 427323
Oh, dear lord, it's this discussion again.
I never see you around.
Verithrax2007-07-20 22:13:31
QUOTE(Catarin @ Jul 20 2007, 10:15 AM) 427251
At what point will people stop saying "Oh, there's not much theft so the little we have is an enhancement"? How often does a theft have to occur before it's considered a standard trait of Lusternia? I personally think we're well on our way there. When we do get to the point where theft is as prevalent in Lusternia as it is in Achaea will people be surprised? I hope not. As players we had the opportunity to stop it from happening and we didn't do it.
As Geb has pointed out, players don't seem to much mind the favors they get for no particular reason. They also don't seem to mind when their own divine get directly involved in a situation. I don't think anyone can provide evidence of gods wandering about handing out disfavours quite as willy nilly as favours are handed out. In fact, it seems pretty easy to avoid disfavours altogether.
If you're going to do something, accept the consequences of those actions both expected and unexpected. There isn't exactly a lot of recourse available against thieves. The avenger doesn't even recognize it. If you happen to be a weaker person there is very little chance you will be able to go against whoever targetted you (which is likely the reasoning behind the targetting in the first place). Even if your whole city/commune goes up in arms over it, you're still not going to get your stuff back and whoever did it is still going to be happily counting their booty in the safety of their homes. And let's say the person is particularly brave while all this anger exists over their action and is able to be killed. Unless you resort to griefing them to the point they can't play, killing them isn't really a very effective way of retaliating. Altogether an extremely frustrating experience for the victim that goes so far beyond a simple death that the two really shouldn't be compared. A disfavour seems reasonable in this situation if it's justified - and robbing a commune shop does justify it.
As Geb has pointed out, players don't seem to much mind the favors they get for no particular reason. They also don't seem to mind when their own divine get directly involved in a situation. I don't think anyone can provide evidence of gods wandering about handing out disfavours quite as willy nilly as favours are handed out. In fact, it seems pretty easy to avoid disfavours altogether.
If you're going to do something, accept the consequences of those actions both expected and unexpected. There isn't exactly a lot of recourse available against thieves. The avenger doesn't even recognize it. If you happen to be a weaker person there is very little chance you will be able to go against whoever targetted you (which is likely the reasoning behind the targetting in the first place). Even if your whole city/commune goes up in arms over it, you're still not going to get your stuff back and whoever did it is still going to be happily counting their booty in the safety of their homes. And let's say the person is particularly brave while all this anger exists over their action and is able to be killed. Unless you resort to griefing them to the point they can't play, killing them isn't really a very effective way of retaliating. Altogether an extremely frustrating experience for the victim that goes so far beyond a simple death that the two really shouldn't be compared. A disfavour seems reasonable in this situation if it's justified - and robbing a commune shop does justify it.
Translation: We players are too stupid/weak/selfish to prevent theft, so we need the admin to step in. Frankly you have nobody to blame but yourselves for allowing theft to happen so often; whining and begging the big bad admin to step in for your sake is rather unbecoming.
QUOTE
And I'm curious as to what great RP is going on that people seem to think warrants a god coming up with a more creative punishment than the standard ones? Sure if they want to great, but coming up with one because of a petty theft? Or when someone shouts an insult or whatever? I don't see that it would really be worth it. The punishment should match the crime and if the crime is banal (and thievery is about as banal as you can get in IRE) then the punishment should be as well.
Banal crimes like thievery don't warrant divine punishment at all. They're gods, not your local neighbourhood policeman. Again, what's the point of punishing thieves by taking away their reason to play the game in the first place for a limited time? Why bother? Why waste essence on it? And why bitch and moan and squirm until the gods solve everything for you? I think the players are perfectly capable of stopping theft from happening. They just don't want to, so why should the admin waste essence protecting the wishes of a (vocal) minority?
Gwylifar2007-07-21 04:02:00
QUOTE(Shamarah @ Jul 19 2007, 11:33 PM) 427173
Anyway, if it's a commune shop it's not like I'm hurting anyone personally.
Hmmm, did some hack Shamarah's forum account? Because I don't expect this kind of rationalization denial self-delusion stuff from Shamarah. Other people on the forum, sure, but even on a really bad day, not Shamarah. Unless it's a tacky joke?
Unknown2007-07-21 05:19:00
QUOTE(Furien @ Jul 19 2007, 10:23 PM) 427166
Doing something to punish a person outside of basic admin punishments (maggot, disfavour, etc.) really just depends on how creative the Divine in question is.
You shouldn't of said anything. Now we have a plague.
Arix2007-07-21 09:17:12
Elostian2007-07-21 12:49:14
QUOTE(Ashteru @ Jul 20 2007, 10:42 PM) 427343
I never see you around.
I enjoy my solitude.
Doesn't mean I'm not here though.
Silenus2007-07-21 13:13:57
I'm convinced that all IRE gods receive a booklet with what to do in certain situations, because I'm yet to see one act different and not go suddenly 'dormant'.
Yrael2007-07-21 13:37:33
Can someone just.. sticky this thread? Then someone can just post a name in it when they feel like complaining. It'd save some forum space. Besides, the LIsaera's always seem to be giving out massive tdfs and hdfs to everyone who looks sideways in the general direction of Serenwilde.
Unknown2007-07-21 14:05:46
QUOTE(Yrael @ Jul 21 2007, 08:37 AM) 427452
Can someone just.. sticky this thread? Then someone can just post a name in it when they feel like complaining. It'd save some forum space. Besides, the LIsaera's always seem to be giving out massive tdfs and hdfs to everyone who looks sideways in the general direction of Serenwilde.
I don't remember the old Lisaera doing that nearly as much as Viravain/Terentia. Fain and Morgfyre never seem to give disfavours out for org issues, but the divine of the other three cities do every once in awhile. I don't see huge problems with it when it's only short term, but if it were much longer than 3 days it would be too much.
Elostian2007-07-22 13:07:35
QUOTE(Silenus @ Jul 21 2007, 02:13 PM) 427449
I'm convinced that all IRE gods receive a booklet with what to do in certain situations, because I'm yet to see one act different and not go suddenly 'dormant'.
I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your statement, no one here was saying anything about dormancies. What are you suggesting exactly?
Unknown2007-07-22 13:16:13
I think he is suggesting that IRE has some sort of secret police who go around capturing volunteers who step out of line. 
He hasn't made his opinion clear on if he views any of the following events mentioned in this thread as gods 'stepping out of line' though, so I can't infer any more then that.
He hasn't made his opinion clear on if he views any of the following events mentioned in this thread as gods 'stepping out of line' though, so I can't infer any more then that.
