Krellan2007-08-23 05:53:18
i totally outbash warriors and mages and bards 
Unknown2007-08-23 07:25:49
DISCLAIMER: My bashing statements are made mostly with a high level char, lots of trans skills and astral as bashing ground in mind. It's the -full- possible potential of classes that I see if all conditions are as best as possible (ie what I just listed for power bashing).
Warrior bashing can be faster than all mage classes due to the fact of 2 crits per round compared to one. Even though each crit on its own will be weaker if you compare astral kill counts warriors can easily pull ahead of any magic class. Of course this -only- works with certain warrior race/class combos and excellent bashing weapons at high levels. The potential to be better than any magic class at a compareable high level with similar trans skills (and a high int race with eq boni) is definitely there though.
I disagree. Warrior bashing is HORRIBLE at low levels. If I make a magic class novice I can get to level 50+ very quickly (and have in the past) but as a warrior novice it takes considerably longer. The issue is that with weapons you have the chance to miss (won't happen with a magic attack) and you'll generally need more hits to kill which especially in Newton slows you down and makes you use more vials (or more time if you meditate / sleep).
Secondly, Monks have the definite potential to be better at hunting than warriors. Of course it depends on race/class/skills again but since the dmg formula is the same (I think Roark said that? .. or similar at least) and they have the chance to get more crits they -can- be faster. At high levels at least. As a novice bashing might suck just like warrior bashing (although a bit less due to the fact that you can make combos, have the chance to insta kill in one combo in Newton which in turn will slow you down less).
Thirdly, Cudgel sucks in pvp but from everything I heard it seems to be at least decent in bashing (possibly even good). My reason for ranking druids fairly low is that they do not have much damage reduction and cannot tank as much. Going by feeling though I think cosmicfire might be the worse bashing attack compared to cudgel. You'd need someone like Ialie or Niara to confirm / contradict this though.
Also druids (at least hartstone) have skills that passivly heal in demesne. That too puts them above guardians who don't have that (hallowed ground does it right? But is it something you can use non stop in bashing?)
PS: I sincerely doubt you'd be able to outbash someone like Melanchthon, Krellan.
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Aug 22 2007, 04:07 PM) 435316
Except for the fact that you have Moondancers/Shadowdancers on the wrong end of your little list, yes, it is constructive. I'd put warriors back in the order quite a bit, too (especially Faeling / Faeling Shadowlord ones, strength is extremely important). Don't forget that a number of warriors use 2h weapons, as well.
Warrior bashing can be faster than all mage classes due to the fact of 2 crits per round compared to one. Even though each crit on its own will be weaker if you compare astral kill counts warriors can easily pull ahead of any magic class. Of course this -only- works with certain warrior race/class combos and excellent bashing weapons at high levels. The potential to be better than any magic class at a compareable high level with similar trans skills (and a high int race with eq boni) is definitely there though.
QUOTE(mitbulls @ Aug 22 2007, 06:03 PM) 435329
I would disagree. I'd rank them closer to this based on POTENTIAL:
Warriors > Mages (telekinesis is amazing) > Bards (regeneration and massive damage) > Monks (lots of crits at high levels but the damage is low, not great at low levels) > Moondancers (close behind or possibly even ahead of monks) > Shadowdancers (lower damage formula) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guardians > druids (cudgel FTL).
I'm actually not sure the bolded part is true. I think minor second gets stronger as you use your instrument (up to maestro level) but the short tests I've seen don't indicate that it gets any stronger with more lessons in music/etc.. Learning more magic will increase your damage marginally as well.
Warriors > Mages (telekinesis is amazing) > Bards (regeneration and massive damage) > Monks (lots of crits at high levels but the damage is low, not great at low levels) > Moondancers (close behind or possibly even ahead of monks) > Shadowdancers (lower damage formula) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guardians > druids (cudgel FTL).
I'm actually not sure the bolded part is true. I think minor second gets stronger as you use your instrument (up to maestro level) but the short tests I've seen don't indicate that it gets any stronger with more lessons in music/etc.. Learning more magic will increase your damage marginally as well.
I disagree. Warrior bashing is HORRIBLE at low levels. If I make a magic class novice I can get to level 50+ very quickly (and have in the past) but as a warrior novice it takes considerably longer. The issue is that with weapons you have the chance to miss (won't happen with a magic attack) and you'll generally need more hits to kill which especially in Newton slows you down and makes you use more vials (or more time if you meditate / sleep).
Secondly, Monks have the definite potential to be better at hunting than warriors. Of course it depends on race/class/skills again but since the dmg formula is the same (I think Roark said that? .. or similar at least) and they have the chance to get more crits they -can- be faster. At high levels at least. As a novice bashing might suck just like warrior bashing (although a bit less due to the fact that you can make combos, have the chance to insta kill in one combo in Newton which in turn will slow you down less).
Thirdly, Cudgel sucks in pvp but from everything I heard it seems to be at least decent in bashing (possibly even good). My reason for ranking druids fairly low is that they do not have much damage reduction and cannot tank as much. Going by feeling though I think cosmicfire might be the worse bashing attack compared to cudgel. You'd need someone like Ialie or Niara to confirm / contradict this though.
Also druids (at least hartstone) have skills that passivly heal in demesne. That too puts them above guardians who don't have that (hallowed ground does it right? But is it something you can use non stop in bashing?)
PS: I sincerely doubt you'd be able to outbash someone like Melanchthon, Krellan.
Unknown2007-08-23 16:03:11
As a Krokani that started in the Shofangi, newbie bashing was great, then it sucked outside of Newton until I got to replacing punches with shofas, at which point it became great (fast hits and good hit strength). I'm considering going Loboshigaru, because their stats (other than strength) seem better and the regen with Harmony would be insane, but I'm not sure that I will, mainly because I don't know how much strength affects monk bashing.
But yes, monks are good (non-trans!) bashers.
But yes, monks are good (non-trans!) bashers.
Krellan2007-08-23 21:27:15
I totally would, I can outbash Hyrtakos and Exertye. while their crits are weaker, I only need weaker crits to get the instant kills I need. same demigodness so crit frequency would be the same, assuming they both hit the speed cap, which is the same for all(under my impression), with the right weapons, it's essentially attacking at the same exact rate, with the fraction differences in speed going to connection speed. While on one hand I'll never miss, need smaller crits to do the job. The warriors on the other hand get a bit of extra tankiness. Not sure how much more though. If I seriously hunted I hover just over 7000 health. defensively we should be roughly equilivalent unless it's a serenguard or ebonguard though an ebonguard would be better than a serenguard because of drink. Monks are the only ones I'd concede getting outbashed by
Exeryte2007-08-23 21:38:36
QUOTE(Krellan @ Aug 23 2007, 04:27 PM) 435644
I totally would, I can outbash Hyrtakos and Exertye. while their crits are weaker, I only need weaker crits to get the instant kills I need. same demigodness so crit frequency would be the same, assuming they both hit the speed cap, which is the same for all(under my impression), with the right weapons, it's essentially attacking at the same exact rate, with the fraction differences in speed going to connection speed. While on one hand I'll never miss, need smaller crits to do the job. The warriors on the other hand get a bit of extra tankiness. Not sure how much more though. If I seriously hunted I hover just over 7000 health. defensively we should be roughly equilivalent unless it's a serenguard or ebonguard though an ebonguard would be better than a serenguard because of drink. Monks are the only ones I'd concede getting outbashed by
You may be able to outbash those two, but can you outbash Exeryte?
Krellan2007-08-23 21:46:32
pshhh I think I did in the last death competition 
not sure if you were in it.
not sure if you were in it.Exeryte2007-08-23 22:11:26
QUOTE(Krellan @ Aug 23 2007, 04:46 PM) 435648
pshhh I think I did in the last death competition not sure if you were in it.
not sure if you were in it.I think you missed the joke.
And the last Death competition was when I was a Crow-user.
