I don't object to shades of grey at all. I don't think the wyrd is all that difficult to grasp either, for that matter, I just think its a poorly thought out idea. I object to inconsistency and contradiction, the constant belief that Glomdoring operates in a vacuum that affects no-one but themselves, and the seemingly unconscious attitude that has developed that if people disagree its because they can't RP as well as you can, but fair enough.

I'm not sure how much more productive I can be, I think the solution is clear, and I've already said as much - step back, coordinate with others who will be affected and involved in it, and define a common purpose that is something you can really get behind. Knocking down individuals who've worked for so long for Glomdoring, no matter what their flaws might be, is only going to promote disunity and resentment. I think the playerbase is already there to make it a phenomenal org, and it always has been, they're just constrained in what they have to do by how it is set up.

(Emphasis mine.)

You are absolutely, completely, 100% wrong. Conversions happen all the time in Lusternia, and I can speak from personal experience that certain of Glomdoring's members have been and continue to be highly charismatic, persuasive figures with no need to bludgeon people over the head. They've never once said, "Ooh, look how subtle I am! Aren't I a silver-tongued devil? Let me seduce you to the dark side!" and yet, over the years, they managed to convince a Seren, a Spiritsinger, and a Seal-Bearer to leave guild and commune, revere Viravain as the epitome of the ideal of Beauty, and join Glomdoring. Subtlety must often be paired with patience, and those who utilize their skills of subterfuge successfully have it in spades. You seem to have somewhat unrealistic expectations of what subversiveness and ideological seduction entail.

I think the problem you had in Serenwilde was rather that you just didn't like it. I think I remember you critizising or being upset about a lot of (random) things. If you like Glomdoring, I'm glad you went there. It saves me the trouble of arguing one more person.

Eh despite the subversiveness or persuasiveness of a character, people don't change orgs unless they want to. And even moreso there is a credit consideration for the change, so the vast majority of "conversions" due to "convincing" are more or less the player having the original intent of going to that org anyways, supplemented by roleplay.

...Yes, I resigned partially due to OOC reasons. :|
You probably missunderstood the part where I went "Omfg, need to spend time with girlfriend or break up."


EDIT: Aaah, but I am quitting Glom because of Glom itself, yeah.

Not sure what quitting you meant.

well spending lots of time in the realms and hopping around to every place possible.. i find that you get the people that feel the need to prove their point no matter where you go even if they feel the need to prove the point by arguing about anything that doesnt even matter.

while in celest i made it a habbit of causing random debates just to watch people yell at each other actually.

"i really think ill eat lobster to day"
-random chimer inner- "omg lobster lobster sounds like the light all pledge the light !!! what no time for lobster light light -light bright good night?-

having made a novice in glomdoring and then having been kicked out 10 minutes later for quitting my guild and not joining the shadow dancers fast enough -actually happened- i can understand how people new to the game can be like .... screw this game and that can hurt the game as a whole
but things that hurt the game more so are when you get people around level 40-50 who are the on the verge of really getting into the game and buying credits and spending lots of time here and they make 1 wrong step sending them off an edge of people holding grudges for ever so when ever the person finds a need to speak they get squashed.

Wh...

..What?

I wouldn't spend too long trying to decipher that.

That reminds me Ashteru, I need to send you one of the hats I sent Simimi

Your disclaimer should be edited into that post itself.

Is it possible to see a log of the meeting?

Sham posted it on page 13 already. You live in the past.

What I find most frustrating about this whole affair is the lack of clear goals to avoid being closed. Did Estarra set some in the log and I missed them? What, specifically, do we have to achieve in the next month?

Meeting seemed pretty circular in points people made, but it was good to finally see what went on and approach that they decided to take. Thoros and Niente have joined Glom as well now, so if raids/fighting help unify they should get more regularly (Although Daed deserves some credit).

I don't think clearly stated goals were what Estarra was after, if a set of criteria was made it would be a get out clause if they met it but fell back on old habits. i think she wants to see evidence of effort and change that will last longer than it did after last summit. Like it is the journey, not the end that matters, although end matters here too. Maybe that's just me though.

Nah, it's not just you.

I think it's fair to say that if Glomdoring collectively, visibly, and actively tries new approaches but ends up failing, the administration will ultimately be more likely to pay some sort of attention to it in the future than if the population just sits on its arse for the next month and whines about the conditions set upon it.

It's left purposely vague and uncertain to do away with complacency and bar setting.

Oddly, I don't really remember ever speaking with you. I can't say I regret it, given the tone of your post, but the things I didn't like about the Serenwilde weren't enough (on their own) to make me leave, especially with a guild like the Spiritsingers. I suppose it's too much to ask that when someone clearly states their reason for doing something, it would be accepted at face value.

I am curious, how did the conversations start?

One thing that was mentioned in the summit that struck me was the reference to Magnagora, and the Ur'Guard in specific, about being able to create a ruthless environment but still not have the same problems retaining people.

I would be interested to hear (preferably from actual Magnagoran players and/or Ur'Guard members) what factors keep you from having the same issues. I don't know that all of them would apply equally well in Glomdoring, since our "evil" is a different shade than your "evil," but I'd still be interested in your thoughts. Maybe there'll be something we can take away from that.

we actually give people a chance to grow in rank thats why we work?

Daganev, would you edit the log/a link to the log into your OP? I can't find the blasted thing anywhere and I've heard someone posted a log somewhere in this thread.