From my time in Glom I can agree with both Tajalli and Ainia. My opinion was always not that I wasn't welcome, per'se, but that I had to earn my welcome by showing the Glom I was worth its time, so to speak. Granted it is easier to play in Glom when you go in knowing a little about the game, but I do wonder how it is for a true novice. Myself having joined the game prior to Glomdoring by a long shot, so I have never been completely new going in.

My biggest issue with Glom is that inside it feels like it looks on the outside; small, dark, and alone in the big bad world. =/

Okay. I said it before but I'll say it again.

Looking at pure numbers Lusternia probably can't support 4 factions with 5 guilds a piece. The entire game needs more players. If Glomdoring suddenly gets a population increase another org(s) is going to suffer a decrease.

Adjusting the org philosophy may provide a temporary fix. It may not. That option has been tried and by the news post I am guessing it was considered a failure. I'd love the complete and total removal of taint from Glomdoring. As much as I'd love to see it there is no guarantee that a re-imagined Gloriana would be any better than Glomdoring. At most it may leach off a few who may have otherwise chosen Serenwilde. Promoting and reinvigorating the concept of the Wyrd could possibly accomplish the same thing.

There are a few things that I personally as a player would love to see.

1) Bring back Summer Song Viravain but with a stronger personality.
2) Eradicate the undead (zombies, Rowena, Brennan) from Glomdoring. That's Magnagora's bag and they do it quite well.
3) Play up the spirits and pull out the Unseelie play book from real world fae mythology. Alter Crow to suit this. Something to suit the Night Avatars. Instead of a trash heap that eats weevils and slippery slimes give Glomdoring lost souls and relics from from the days of Gloriana. Define the line between undeath and living spirits.
4) Don't replace Glomdoring with Gloriana but build upon the foundations of a ruined Gloriana. Make it a tragic tale invigorate by new zeal. Sort of like what New Celest is to Old Celest. Connect the two. Glomdoring is here to do what Gloriana could not.
5) The Wyrd is the new way. Play it up and make it ever present. Remove any trace of taint from it so as not to confuse with Magnagora.
6) And/or/with Viravain a Divine risen from Glomdoring made from the Wyrd. My idea is a lesser Elfenehoala, risen from the shards of dead Gloriana elfen, recombined by the Wyrd. Charune = White Hart, Lisaera = Mother Moon, Viravain = Brother Crow, Elfenhoala = Mother Night. I think this would ensure some interesting conflict between Serenwilde and Glomdoring.
7) Scrap the F'ai Glomdoring bit.

And so on and so forth. The problem is that MY ideas are only MY ideas and they are mostly cosmetic. Someone else will come along with reasons why they are bad ideas and they will be right. Someone will also come along with better ideas and they will be right. Some could also have worse and ideas and they would still be right. As Glomdoring did not come with a prebuilt standard philosophy every one and their uncle is going to have an opinion and they will be able to find logical reasoning as to why their idea is the best one. I like Glomdoring mostly as is even though I want to remake it in my ideal image.

Back to the beginning. Bring in about 50 fresh players to the whole game and I think this problem disappears. I have no problem spewing forth a multitude of changes I'd like to see to Glomdoring. But I will also be honest and say that I put forth these ideas out of personal desire more than I believe they will somehow magically alter any problems with Glomdoring's philosophy and population level.

I would think that would be the primary concern really. How many Glom novices (who aren't alts) are staying in the game. How welcoming is the commune to the average newbie. Is the game actually losing new blood due to Glomdoring. I've no idea what the numbers on that are but that would seem to be more of a concern to the admin than how many villages they can get or how many alts play there more.

Looking at other peoples posts. I guess I could have just said the entire game needs population just as much as Glomdoirng does.

The idea that Glomdoring should be deleted to make way for other orgs is completely absurd. We are not a tiny little group of people and to suggest that somehow the admin's resources are wasted on us is both stupid and quite rude.

I'm not sure exactly why Glomdoring has a smaller ratio of players than the rest of the orgs but I think a part of it is having never really recovered properly from the complete joke that Glomdoring was when it first opened and during the time that the first Viravain was around. We have some leaders who do very little work, and some people seem to enjoy criticizing others rather than actually doing anything themselves. I think what's generally needed is an attitude change and for people to start taking charge more and pushing things forward. People also need to stop thinking that chanting "Glory be to Glomdoring" incessantly actually achieves or really contributes anything.

To clarify Kaervas, I don't think destroying an org is an optimal result, and I'm not stating anything from my own opinion, but I understand that from an admin and overall game perspective you want to serve the overall game. I honestly don't know how many active members there are in Glomdoring, but thinking from an owner's perspective--do you want the support for a very low population to take away from potential elsewhere? I'm just trying to think like the admin.

I actually want you guys to succeed. It's always bothered me that Glomdoring has been plagued with problems and low population. I think players like you and Shamarah have added the "achievers" they need.

However, to play devil's advocate, the player base should never get complacent or ever say "oh, Glomdoring will never go away, the admin won't shut down an org". All I can say is "never say never". I know software projects where people have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and man-hours and then get shut down. Money and time is invested and it makes people cry but sometimes things might just get too broken. So, I hope it doesn't get shut down, but the players also should never think that it will never happen either. Obviously, they're doing everything they can not to resort to this, but I also think players should not get complacent and ever say "BS, they won't shut us down, continue maintaining the status quo".



I believe that is the case. The last admin-concern I remember hearing about Glomdoring was when the Kephera and Illithoids were invading. Other orgs went into investigation mode, Glomdoring stayed away until they "dropped an anvil" to get them involved. I suspect this is still a concern.

I'm not sure what the leaders are going to be able to suggest that they couldn't have already implemented themselves, if they deemed it necessary.

Seems unlikely that anything productive will come of this unless there is compelling new information to be revealed that will dramatically alter people's minds (very doubtful), or it is a 'here's what we're going to do' kind of summit (in which case, I'd think all the players might as well hear it directly).

Not that I'm against fixing what is broken, I just don't really understand the intent of the meeting.

Well, if there is going to be a "plot change", the reason for involving the leaders alone is to reveal the plot to as little people as possible, since a plot could be world-wide, not just Glomdoring and its better to have this handed as IC as possible, so hypothetically, they are only telling the big leaders so they know what we are planning and don't accidentally (or intentionally) throw a wrench into it. I think they are also involving just leaders to prevent alts from either voicing an opinion that may not affect them or spying and reporting back to the rest of the player base.

We do have an anniversary coming up. I want a nice little plot. Last year Viravain was starting to turn a bit odd but that got zapped. If there's a good plan this year, I don't want it sabotaged.

I like Glomdoring's quiet CT.

I'm not trying to be catty, but just to point out that, a lot of things that many players don't like in Glomdoring are things that other players do, and the people in the former category tend to leave, and the people in the latter category tend to stay, and it's kind of a hard sell for people who are staying and like how things are (basically, I mean - I don't know of anyone who would say there isn't room for improvement in Glom) to change to something they won't like as much for the sake of attracting hypothetical players who might like it, more.

Glomdoring's feel is not something that is going to draw many new players. It drew me, but from what I'm hearing, the way I reacted to my novice experience in Glom seems pretty different to the way many people react to theirs. I loved the quiet CT, the vague aura of menace, the need to prove oneself, etc. I didn't like the low numbers, but low numbers is like poverty - it's a problem that tends to perpetuate itself.

I do agree with previous posters that there is a great need for a stronger sense of community, but community does not come from structural changes, changes in leadership, etc. It comes from players who want community working to create community. If Glomdoring has failings in this regard, I blame myself.

As to the issues of Glomdoring having an identity crisis or lacking clear values or what have you, I want to sympathize with people's experience, but I can't empathize. It seems very clear to me.

I guess I'd be interested to hear from players what specific, practical changes could be made that would alleviate the issues they see, because I confess I have a hard time thinking of any that wouldn't change Glomdoring into something else. And I like Glomdoring.

Not being able to attend the meeting due to my work schedule sucks. I wasn't able to go to the last one either, but oh well. I think as players we in Glomdoring have done pretty much everything the admin has asked of us in the past. There's growth, and those that leave Glomdoring as Krellan illustrated were A)sight seeing and likely had no intention of settling down there or B)invested too much time in influences outside of Glomdoring or due to OOC relationships or preferences moved on to other things.

Is destroying Glomdoring an option? Certainly. But I think if it is, then the likeliness of Gaudiguch (or however the damn thing is spelt) or Hallifax coming about no closer to fruition. Indeed, if Glom can't make it, why would any other new org be able to? The fact is, most established players just aren't going to jump up and spend the needed credits to make a suitable switch. Hmm, well some would, some wouldn't.

Lots of alts seem to do well in Glomdoring, even to the point where there are alts on the Shadow Court, but then again- where are they in critical situations? On their main? Sometimes, sometimes not. But the fact remains that the infrastructure of Glomdoring's leadership is weak right now. I think in some orgs you don't have to have a position as a minister or gm, ga, champ to be in their org's leadership clan, but in Glom you do. That seems a bit limiting on input, but then again I don't really miss certain guild bickering and whining that used to echo on the Court aether. Alts in general don't invest as much time and effort into the alt as they do with their main character, and then come to Glom with preconceived notions of how things should be or would like for them to be, then scurry off to their main character and continue to shape things in their own org certain that they've experienced how things are in Glomdoring. Sorry, but if you haven't put the time into it, you're sight seeing. This isn't to say that the opinions of alts doesn't matter- they do- but should be taken with a rather sizeable grain of salt.

Urazial checks in on novices quite frequently in his own guild and does make an attempt to talk to young ones, but then again recently every little one he talks to comes off with an attitude and gives him the cold treatment or spends five minutes working on some emote to throw into the convo or is so blatantly an alt that there is no point. Still, as a novice aide I do the rounds. If BT novices are unhappy with their lot, I can commiserate. A fantastic guild which desperately needs active leadership. Too bad alts have stymied growth there. Come to the Shadowdancers and let the bunny show you Glomdoring.

So what can be done for Glomdoring? Well, a strong Divine and not a candy dispenser would be a good place to start. Get more people involved in the internal decision making process of Glomdoring. I asked Veyda if we were getting a painting leading to our recently acquired village, and evidently that decision is up in the air for the Court to decide. Sorry, but if that's the hot topic on Court, then we definitely need change. Now. Ah well, I've rambled out for the moment.

To Phred: The difference is that we are not employees. When you hire someone onto a project everyone is working towards the same goal. We are all different players with different concepts of fun. As players we do not have the ultimate goal of finding more players. Our ultimate goal is fun. Now the admins getting input from players is a great thing. From reading posts I think we can get a limited consensus on at least one series of conclusions. Glomdoring may have a problem retaining novices. How many of those novices are in actuality alts? Alts aren't a solution because even if they stay they help Glom but hurt others.

How many true new unique players is Lusternia getting? What is the percentage break down on where those players are creating characters?

So true.

I like Glomdoring. Beyond a steady strong divine my complaints are limited.

1) Get rid of taint for real so it can no longer be used as excuse against Glomdoring.
2) I just don't like the undeath parts because Magnagora already has that. Call me selfish but I want my org to be totally unique.

I can tell you one major problem with Glomdoring.

I think I have been inactive for about, hmm, 3 months now?

I wasn't around, I wasn't doing anything except giving out credits to people who deserved them. I don't know half the people because whenever I log in, Its basically me, and at max 3 other people. (once there was 7)

And nobody contested me. I had to retire, and Viravain had to prod people to take my place. There is a problem there.

I know I'm the best guildmaster since sliced bread, (kidding!) but seriously, anybody would have been better for the guild than my inactive self.

Also, I find it odd that this meeting is happeneing BEFORE we get the collegium, this meeting should happen AFTER the collegium is instituted.

Although I dissagree with you in general, I do think that would be the best thing for Glomdoring, as I wrote in the first post

I'd love a good storyline event, but I'm not sure changes to Glomdoring that affect the rest of the world should be approached without some level of discussion or feedback yet again - even if it's just at a general conceptual level. Isn't that how we got to this point?

And although I must confess to being somewhat impartial given my own history with Glomdoring, I really don't understand only the leaders of that org are yet again the only ones invited to summit. If there was a guild that was terribly unbalanced, I'm not sure I'd expect the best outcome by focusing solely on what people in that guild have to say about their own skills, or the solutions they themselves come up with. (Ok, not that the situation with Glomdoring is that dire or melodramatic these days, but still!)

Edit: And I'd suggest the complete reverse to Daganev. Embrace the forest of corruption ideal, define the wyrd much more strongly as the otherwise wild and unpredictable power of pure taint harnessed more skillfully under the malign guidance of the taint-enlightened spirits - controlled and directed much more subtly under a veneer of seductive cajoling and pleasantness. Drop this isolation and holier-than-thou rubbish that was carried on for far too long (and was almost entirely derived from ooc need), and visualize the dark forest as the centre of a dangerous web, the agents of Glomdoring more than willing to venture into other nations and abroad to snare easy victims to bring back to their lair for deliciously excrutiating play or if lucky a total corruption, using silver-tongued diplomacy in most cases but not hesitating to fall back on a quick and deadly kill if their machinations become too obvious.

I disagree with myself sometimes. I really like Glomdoring. I was nervous after first switching but it does have this quiet determination vibe that makes for easy play. All of the cosmetic changes I'd like really have nothing to do with Glomdoring. They are more in line with settings that I would find appealing in any similar game or in a fantasy novel.

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You can do all that by actually -removing- any traces of the taint, and codifing that the Wyrd is something new and not taintlike at all, and at the same time, you don't have the problem of having a complete disconnect with history.

It seems incredibly stupid to me, and would cause more problems if suddenly the past 100 IC years were all "just a dream"


I mean honestly, who in Celest or Serenwilde is going to talk to a person from Glomdoring if they are tainted? If you broadcast yourself to be all evil and ferocious and silver tongue diplomat, you end up being the exact opposite.

The only people who can really pull off that role are people from Celest who claim to follow Razielia.


edit: Personally for my charachter, and the teachings I teach people, it would be easier and nicer for me, if Glomdoring fully embraced its Tainted side, but it would not be best for Glomdoring, especially given the long history we have.

I'm not sure that that's unique to Glomdoring - people don't like to contest for non-vacant positions much. I haven't worked out all the reasons why yet, but it's a combination of 1) Not thinking you have a chance because someone's established (I assume you're fairly well-known in Glomdoring), 2) Not wanting to be the to contest or do the work, just generally wishing someone else would, 3) Being unable to tell if the other person is active (apart from the general ambiguity of "active", there's timezones to be dealt with), or simply reading the logs, seeing you hand out credits and thinking "oh, he's active." You see it in other places too, and a lot of people need some amount of prodding to contest.

The whole direction of Glomdoring up to this point has been to compromise and water down the things that make Glomdoring unique. I'm not sure continuining down that path will make much difference.

It's a corrupted forest, take away the corruption, and you get what I have always complained about happening - a superfluous purple forest with pretty much the same underlying motivations in every major story as Serenwilde.

That is a -serious- problem in my mind. There really needs to be a culture of cutthroat politics, where if you aren't doing things well, or arn't pushing something, then there will be somebody just waiting for you to go dormant or slip up to replace you.

In my mind, that sort of culture though can only come from the Divine and the Orders, who insist and push that sort of thing on their followers.

I can see any of the gods basically saying, "Hey Max, why do you let org x fall into decline while Joe embaresses its progress." And then turning and saying the same thing to some other high ranking order member. And then demoting the people who go dormant or don't perform.