Sheesh... now I'm playing both sides of the fence.

Poor Xavius.

All you blokes with names starting with "X" look the same to me!

But you did name names, you said Shayle/Xenthos/Daganev and Xavius/Yeralih.

Those are the people who are constatly blamed for all of Glomdoring's problems amongst the people of the forums, and the ooc clans ingame. And in the chatrooms.

Nobody else is ever mentioned. (although until now, my name never actually came up)

But since then, plenty of people on the forums here, have declared me to be part of the problem. (until now, I had actually thought I was part of the solution, since I was working, covertly and sometimes overtly against Shayle and Xenthos, who were being labeled the problem and was helping people work around them. I was even helping Viravain for a while with those things, but then I went innactive and wasn't able to help anymore)

So while yes, it has been stated time and time again that there are "people" who backstab and say running for office is treason, and who systematically remove established players from the commune, we don't know if thats one person, or 5 people. doing those things. We also don't know if the problem extends beyond those 5 people or not.

Dag, whether there is a problem or not, there is an ultimatum for change with consequences.

You can deny the existence of the problem all you want, it simply makes your points irrelevant to those of us who are trying to avoid said consequences.

My experience with you the other day IC and my readings of these post suggest to me that you believe that you have all the answers if only the problem was spoon fed to you. Unfortunately, whether you are on board or not, the train is leaving the station and begging you to get on board is probably not a priority.

You take things so literally, I meant that as in they hijacked it to put up concerns and suggestions.

Instead of just Vent.
If you can't find a way for your character to survive without intimidating or purposefully annoying and finding ways to get rid of people by making their game time hell: Good bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out (Meant not directly at anyone person).


Read the edit, I mixed up words.

I named those names as political parties whose rivalries and competition may have contributed to part of the negativity in Glomdoring. Why did I name those names? Because a Glomdoring member sent me a private message during the meeting with that observation (as several things I brought up in the meeting were actually on behalf of other players who wanted to remain anonymous). I asked that of the group and many seemed to agree so I made my suggestion.

Don't read more into it then there was.

Just gotta point something out:

Just because something is fun for you doesn't mean it's going to be fun for everyone around you.

The usefulness of this thread ran out at about page 10. Let's just stop going in circles.

With quotes like that, I don't know how I am the one reading more into it then there was. It is clearly the impression that was given during the Summit, intended or not.

Obviously.

The one thing that has annoyed me most about Glomdoring's current state, and the various ideas to fix it:

There has been more time spent debating than actually -doing-. Yesterday, we had a nice bit of discussion and activity. Not because of anything great or profound or whatnot. There was a more active atmosphere simply because several of the players just decided to say "Hey, what's up?", or "I think a Wargames might be fun, want to start one?". I, for one, don't think there's any huge disturbance with RP or 'toxic' atmosphere. I think the players just need to talk more.

When it is clearly stated that Glomdoring -must- change (yes, I realize that we don't have to change, but how many people will actually play in an org that has little to no admin-time spent on it?), there doesn't seem to be much point arguing whether or not there really is a problem. Just start discussions more often, have Wargames/FFAs held more often, and you'll see a boost in activity.

I'm not sure what backstabbing and deceit in the literature you are talking about as you haven't provided any examples, but the idea of having a player org encourage its own members practicing and honing such skills against each other does not sound like a way to make such an org a fun place for many people. Thus, I would strongly encourage a reformation against such a philosophy and will certainly support any needed changes to accomplish that.

I know what you mean. I used to pick up girls in the back of bars by pretending to be Xenthos.

sorry but people do not send emails/messages to administration because of a lack of FFA/wargames and a lack of discussion. I think the fact that at the summit, which is completely ooc, people where afraid to voice their issues and rather stay anomynous is quite indicative to an unhealthy gaming atmosphere.

At one time it was rather difficult to start discussions, especially about issues directly related to Wyrd/Night/Crow.

At the moment, however, there seem to be far more people who -want- open discussions than those who do not. At one time, a character may have been kicked out for 'blasphemy'. Now, it seems to me that people (who dislike questioning) will have a rather difficult time ostracising someone for 'blasphemy', because the person in question will have the support of the majority.

Dag, I think you should anticipate that as a high-profile member of Glomdoring, you're going to be considered representative of anything other people don't like about it. No matter how much good you've done, or how little you've realistically contributed to a problem, you're still the prominent one who can be called out.

It's the same thing that has happened to Merloch, who was a breathtakingly amazing leader during his tenure - I've never seen anyone surpass that level of RP and expert direction in shaping a community, although Ibaesha certainly came very close. Now what are the usual mentions of his name? People didn't like that he was involved in an event wherein the forest rejected liches (on its own cognizance, mind you), and he's given as an example of fanaticism and destructive influence, when in reality he is one of the ones most responsible for the long-term success of the Moondancer concept.

I wouldn't take it too personally, just explain exactly why you haven't contributed to these problems, and let it go. People will always form their own opinions.

From what I gather, if it helps, the main problems that have been pointed out are (from what I understand):
1) Leaders in Glomdoring don't try to reason with people who disagree, they ignore, harass, or banish them.
2) Political pressures are being taken into OOC media, and some people are using IM's, chatrooms and so on to influence other characters in what they are allowed to do.

I think the former is merely symptomatic of the RP environment that has developed in Glomdoring (yes, I'm talking RP again, so shoot me), and thus can be addressed by looking at the RP environment rather than political individuals. The latter is something I don't think can be dealt with at all IC, and it is foolish to try. Instead, issues and admin moderation will have to address it.

Just be calm, and do try to read carefully with an open mind. It can be frustrating arguing with you because you don't seem to actually listen to the main points of another person's comments, only pick little sentences and show how they don't fit your worldview. The hardest part of making a convincing argument is to try to understand where the other person is coming from, and then present facts or opinions from their side that might get them to reconsider. You can't stay in the same headspace and expect people not to just give up trying to reason with you - I think you often have good ideas and original points of view, you just haven't had much success in trying to convey them.

I find it amusing how well an example this thread is turning out to be.

It started out decently, but over the 20 page evolution it appears to have degenerated into various groups of people. There has been denying of problems, not listening to each other's arguments, name-calling, accusations and people advocating their own truth while discussing things that arguably have little to do with the conversation or problem.

And in the midst of this all, has anyone noticed that it's just the core discussing now and that most people have left quite a while ago?

I think glom needs a healthy injection of some murphy and co.....which might not be too far off if certain people don't stop being retarded in mag.

Thank you, Murphy, for perfectly illusatrating my point.

You might have to define what you meant by "core." It looks like most of Glomdoring, leaders and all, left this thread a while ago.

Frankly, between school and things that can actually be done in the game, I've got better worries than what people without alts (or Dag) think the problem is. I've got better worries than even what I think the problem is, because, frankly, with only a month to work with, the problem is completely irrelevant to the solution. Regardless of who does or doesn't want me involved, it's getting done for the sake of the people who really rely on Glom to provide some diversion for the real people sitting at keyboards.