I do not think it is true.

Weeds are natural, weeds are do the same thing the Wyrd does. Weeds fight against pretty Sunflowers and great Oak Trees.

Weeds don't have to be some evil unnatural corruption.

The Wyrd can also have the added benefit of being able to Block out the Light, and Clear up the Taint, leaving a space for weeds (Wyrd) to enter.

You don't have to be unholy to be evil and constrictive.

From my totally outside pov.. I think Tajalla and Ainia have some very good points.

Each time (and it's a long time ago now) I did make an alt there just to get out of Celest for a bit, that was the very feeling I got. I don't think the established players / leaders are the problem but rather that most new people Glomdoring seems to get are either Lusternian alts or experienced IRE players. It's a niche of a niche.

How many of the novices that are either totally new to muds or at least new to IRE really stick around? I think they'd simply have a much easier time in Celest or Serenwilde to learn the game. The RP there is much more friendlier and also displayed to the org that way.

In Seren at least if someone needs anything 90% of the time someone will help. 95% of the time if someone dies we either resurgem or run for the corpse. In my totally biased opinion, I think Seren has the best unity in the game (except for offensive combat *cough*), followed closely by Celest -especially- when it comes to combat.

Okay, I haven't read every single post, but then I rarely do. If I've missed something, please correct me.

I believe people on both sides are letting themselves be blinded instead of looking at the situation for what it really is. First off, I think people who live in the Glomdoring are overestimating the health of the organization. It has been said several times before; the majority of the people in the Glomdoring are alts. For some reason, it does not seem to attract or retail true newbies very well, and that is a huge problem which needs to be addressed. There are also problems with the identity of the Glomdoring. There is the isolationist concept, some people see it as tainted, others see it as pure; the Wyrd has no real definition or history, so they can't consistently RP it out as anything at all. The leaders are becoming more open from what I have seen, but they still need new blood. They also face the constant chicken or egg problem - "We don't have the population to do that, but nobody wants to move here because we don't do that."

On the other hand, I think some of Glomdoring's problems are not the fault of any of the players (or divine) there, but actually related to external issues. I like the idea of completely removing all traces of any taint, so the Glomdoring can be assured its own identity, but the fact remains that certain members of the Serenwilde will always insist that it is tainted and throw it in with Magnagora unless it is completely purified. I personally would like to see the Glomdoring itself 'purified,' but come out of it being equally merciless. The weaklings from the Serenwilde are just standing around talking to trees; the strong in the Glomdoring can twist and manipulate nature to their own goals. The RP of it seems to fit into the concept of the Glomdoring, and it will remove the confusing (and not very defining) RP aspect of the Wyrd. The Glomdoring will then be free to work against the cities (the Taint and Light are infringing upon nature, which is our source of power!), against the Serenwile (the pathetic elves there don't deserve the power of nature; we can do better by taking over), or any other combination. Their end goal, then, would be to preserve nature for their own use, distinct from the Serenwilde in that they don't have the respect and service of nature, but rather recognize the potential of its power.

That is not well thought out, just off of the top of my head, but I think that sort of RP is more what I had in mind for the Glomdoring from the beginning. It sounds a lot more fun and interesting to me than the way the RP environment in Glomdoring is right now.

Good luck getting any of that to stick now, of course. If Glomdoring could even agree that it was a good idea (whether it is or not) it'd be a bit late to suddenly change everything AGAIN.

One last comment, I think the reason why Glomdoring holds mostly Alts, is that it is Tougher to play in Glomdoring. It is harder to wrap your mind around it, and carry it out.

That was what I have always liked about Glomdoring and what drew me to it. I always thought of Glomdoring as the place for the adults to play because its historical concepts are a collection of contradictions and ambiguities. That was and is my favorite part about it.

Jeebus. I agree with Daganev.

The only result I can see from Glomdoring embracing the taint is forcing a Serenwilde/Celest vs. Glomdoring/Magnagora dynamic. I do not think Glomdoring fares well in that relationship. Glomdoring has the Wyrd. Put it on par with the other factions by making it its own pure force.

There is no longer any need to wory about Glomdoring becoming Serenwilde Jr. if it does not have taint. The precedent for enmity has been established.

That and I have a cool vision of the Gloriana spirits rising up and saying, "We were weak and wrong. Embrace the Wyrd and its viscious strength to do what we could not."

I don't understand what's so confusing about the Wyrd. It has always been a strong part of my RP, and I don't understand why people think it's problematic. I, actually, believe there's a lot of unmined potential, there. The nature of whether or not the Wyrd is Taint and whatnot has been ambiguous, but I really think people may be overestimating the practical value of that ambiguity. People are not paralyzed in Glomdoring because there's no definitive answer on whether or not Wyrd is a form of Taint or something else altogether.

Although I'm not sure about the particulars (I don't want to make the Glomdoring a foresty Magnagora any more than I want to make it a meaner Serenwilde), I do prefer Avaerin's thoughts regarding sharpening Glomdoring's distinctives. Any move that makes Glomdoring more like Serenwilde is going to be a reason to leave it, in my opinion. Why wouldn't you?

It seems like deciding what we should open across the street from a McDonald's - should we open a Burger King, or should we open a sushi place? If we open the Burger King, we'd probably get more numbers by siphoning off the existing popularity of the McDonald's, but if we opened a sushi place, we'd get our numbers from our distinctive identity.

Huh? Nothing has to change AGAIN, instead the story just needs to progress.

Ayridion and Viravain can Fight against Morgfyre. Morgfyre can try to consume Glomdoring since he can't conssume Viravain yet, and instead, he manages to only consume the vestiges of Taint from beneath the Wyrd.

Viravain and Ayridion then quickly fill that space with a new empowerement, a white flame comes down, and the Wyrd quickly climbs over it, sucking it into itself, and it becomes stronger.

This new stronger Wyrd, gives the Harbingers the ability to turn undead, removing the affects of being undead for short periods of time, at the same time it has the ability to put a shadow over the light, and cancel out the affects of Herretic. (or something similiar)

Everything continues as Normal, except Now Morgfyre has removes the right for Glomdoring to be associated with the gift of Taint, and the Wyrd is proven to be much more "anti-fate" then originally thought.

Again, just off the top of my head.

I would agree Demetrios except that it appears its not working to the admins satisfaction.

I would love for this to have been done a long time ago and other stuff added in, but another concern needs to be taken into account: avoiding treading on Serenwilde's stuff. Boogieman's Gloriana spirits rising up and whatever would be a horrible idea, because removing the Taint from Glomdoring (actually, not "maybe" like the Wyrd) already usurps Serenwilde's place as "the only forest to survive the taint wars largely unscathed" and so on. Faethorn is a good example of the mess that came about because of this treading on other people's values.

Just throwing that in there since I was talking about it with someone on MSN and I'd like for the people at the meeting to try to keep it in mind before that particular part of the situation devolves any further.

N.B my posts get continuously less coherent after 4PM, and it's 5:30 now, so excuse me please

Btw, I'll probably leave Glom too, relatively soon.

Glomdoring has already been purified via the wyrd- no more tainted rooms lingering about- and is something not light, ethereal, or taint. It has it's own identity, yet some Serenwilders still say Glom's tainted. As you can find some Magnagorans wandering about Serenwilde, clearly they have no problem with taint per se, but a direct threat to their commune's ideals and spirits. Glomdoring achieved its goal of removing the taint from dear old Glorianna and we've gotten something better or worse out of it but still at it's core it's Nature, or close enough to it be it supranature or some degeneration of it. What'd clear up this problem is make enchanting a trade accessable to the communes and alchemy available for the cities and open up a bright new era of Nature and Wyrd removing the foul cosmic/elemental influences that brought the taint to the Basin to begin with

Okay. You make me blink a bit there. I don't understand how making the Wyrd free of taint treads upon 'the only forest to survive the taint wars largely unscathed'. Not saying your point is invalid just that I don't get it. It is pretty clear that Glomdoring is scathed and scarred. The Wyrd is a mutagen which ties into the science heavy aspects of Lusternia. The spirits was just a random thought. Dag's version could serve just as well.

Hrm...if it's not immediately obvious, I don't think I can explain it better at this time of night (/afternoon). I'll have another go tomorrow if you still care.

Actually, it's a bit different. It's like me opening a turkey shop, then looking around and realizing that the vast majority of people only like ham. Sure, there are a few people who like the distinct difference of turkey, but not nearly enough for my shop to flourish. Closing my shop isn't an option...what should I do instead?




I don't think purifying the forest means that it escaped unscathed. If the attitudes and concepts of the people/spirits/etc are warped by their experiences, they can still hold a unique role that doesn't tread on the territory or the RP of the Serenwilde.



The problem is that the Wyrd doesn't actually have any identity. When the Taint was removed and left the Wyrd, what changed? What are the primary characteristics of the Wyrd? What are the teachings that flow from the Wyrd and why? In a nutshell, what is the Wyrd? Nobody can really answer any of those questions, so it leaves openings for other interpretations. Not much changed when the Taint was removed, so obviously Wyrd = Taint. The Wyrd doesn't actually contribute anything to the identity of the Glomdoring as it is now, and it does not differentiate the Glomdoring from the other organizations.

I do actually. I don't think I interpret the line the same way you do. I don't think Glom needs to maintain a presence of taint for Seren to qualify as the only commune to survive the Taint Wars unscathed. Presumably Ackleberry has also survived and is free of taint.

To note. If things go back to Glom being an acknowledged taint forest that wont make me like it any less. I don't want that to happen but there is more to Glom for me the player than the philosophy. My character will embrace Glom no matter what. It is where I wanted to play since open-beta and I'll find a way to find the fun in it.

As far as I can tell, having spoken with Veyda, this is something he's working to change. Unfortunately, this meeting comes almost immediately after his appointment to Dark Marshall.

And my own, unapologetic contribution to the "Glomdoring needs a god" conversation- You had one. Several times. You were given a chance to completely start over, and certain of your number have continuously bollocksed that up for you. Get rid of the people responsible (they know who they are, regardless of whether or not they'll admit it), give Glomdoring a chance to stand or fall without their persistent influence, and see what can be made of the place.

woah, let's not get into mixing up Order affairs with commune affairs, or we'll need a whole nother thread. and as I reread that word I'm not even sure nother is a word.

Shiri's correct about one thing.

One of the problems with Glomdoring is how it affected Serenwilde. Any changes would have to take that into account.

I believe in forming the Glomdoring the admin's goals were to prevent Glomdoring from becoming, as Lisaera once put it, Magnagora 2.0. They didn't want it to just be a binary conflict of "Good" and "Evil". They wanted shades of grey (which there even are in Celest and Magnagora). There were also OOC issues affecting the beginning of Glomdoring which might have affected its start.

But Glomdoring's existence affected Serenwilde's roles. Faethorn changed several times. When Faelings were revealed to be attuned to the Glomdoring there was a bit of an uproar. The Wyrd was formed because they wanted less tension between the communes. I think a conflict quest was removed (before the rest were removed). They even tried to make Serenwilde not look all squeaky-clean with the fae rebelling and hints of the dark side of Mother Moon with the Torabolla valley prophecy.

I don't know how much of it was done to protect Glomdoring from being destroyed by fanatical Serenwilde players while it was still growing. I don't know how much of it was always intended by our producers (I have a feeling some players got too comfortable with Seren being the most "Good" player base, and didn't like having moral ambiguity introduced). I know several old-guard Serenwilde players left, likely because of these changes.

It's going to be a tough call to figure this out no matter what is done. Any changes to Glomdoring have to take this into account.

1) Will the change be attractive to the player base?
2) Will the change keep it from being a simple binary conflict between good and evil?
3) Will the existing player base accept the changes?