well Charune's Order tends to be more than half of the political circle of Serenwilde and then there's some crazy ridiculousness that I can only babble about for so long before my brain shuts down from the stupidity of the whole mess.

It's interesting how everyone seems focused on what the established players think is important, while the points Ainia and Tajalli brought up have been left largely by the wayside.

I'm not sure what to say. I really want to agree with them, since I had a fair bit of similar experiences in my own novicehood, but I think there's another element they're missing. Glomdoring isn't necessarily short on people who can and will interact with novices, but it does lack spread. A lot of our novice helper types seem to be around the same times that a lot of the others are, and during off times, there's really no one to do it, or those who want to do it.

This may be why you can see such striking and vast contrasts in reactions that Glom novices have with their time in the community (though certainly not the only contributing factor).

To throw a little bit of light on what Lisaera said. There were some who wanted me to become a patron of the Glomdoring, but having seen what it did to the enjoyment of previous gods who have lived in Glomdoring, I am not inclined to touch it even with a 12 foot pole.

I thought the campaign against your every attempted action in the rant forum had something to do with it. I was remarking on this the other day. It was interesting to read and a good example of how to game the game. I felt like I was watching a debate or reading a political blog.

They make good points, but there really isn't anything that I know of that can really help with that at the moment. Apparently I'm a really helpful person, based off my experience during the village revolt, but I'm an inactive person, and I think unless there are active people around the forest who are "midbies" which want to become "oldbies" I don't see how that situation can really be changed.

In my experience, you either have people who enjoy and can make something out of helping newbies, or you have to have the political insentive of people who want to be recognized doing something.

If as a lowbie I can't understand or I don't have a vision of what I would like the commune to look like, odds are I'm not going to be trying to "make friends and influence others"

They did both present valid points, but you can't make players become novice aides or make them bother with novices in general, unfortunately. I recall when I started in the Ebonguard and Xenthos and I were really the only ones teaching novices and we'd have to split into groups with he with a couple and me with a few (though it seems kind of funny to think of a Glom guild being so swamped now). I've worked with novices as Urazial as nearly as long as I've been playing him and know many others do their part, but then again if a novice feels neglected, they need to let some one know about it and ask for help or throw a rock or something in game. Just because I know there might or might not be a problem doesn't mean Urazial does.

The overwhelming sentiment against Elostian becoming Patron expressed in the Shadow Court probably factored in as well.

That was the old Shadow Court. Arel and me wanted him as part of the Council, and Veyda even was so far to ask him once he got Marshal, simply because Glom has -no gods-. But, after Elo and Arel talked with Ash, he told Veyda in the end to drop it. Arel left Glom for Seren, and now nothing is really holding Ash too. (I could explain more, but it would probably be mean and angry, so I'll just leave it at that.)

All in all it seemed like a rather well done multi-front campaign. As an observer and fan of strategery it was entertaining to watch play out in the little tidbits that were publicly available.

The point of my post is unrelated to whether or not Elostian was actually eligible to become a patron, the point I am trying to make is that regardless of the situation of Elostian, the player, that is ME, had no interest whatsoever in becoming one of Glomdoring's deities, as I have seen some of my colleagues driven to despair and eventually resignation, which I do not believe a game is worth.

Is this why the most current Viravain is inactive? She sent me a PM once and seemed really spiffy.

I only ever saw a few things wrong with Glomdoring-

1. Two of their most important undenizens are undead, at least one having the word 'undeath' in his description and they've still got a treaty with Celest. I don't think Magnagora as a whole is the Undeath city, but it does deal closely with Urlach, especially the Ur'Guard.

2. Wyrdiddytainttaintaint. The complete fanaticism over it. (I swear I saw in a Chelp something along the lines of 'You breathe for the GLORY OF GLOMDORING' which made me think..whoahellno. But I guess we've all got different RP styles.) I always- IC and OOC- saw Wyrd as a form of nature that was made more resilient through the application and removal of the Taint. However, removal or not the whole thing's entirely unpure and needs to burn to the ground one day.

3. Viravain. Don't get me wrong- Viravain's been awesome. I've lost track how many times the player behind Viravain has changed- and in that, Glomdoring's policies and decisions. Kinda like letting in Narsrim. Wtf? I thought Viravain was supposed to have less control. There's just been too many changes in her player and RP and style. :/

As for making a lesser spirit of Elfenhoala/some Gloriana spirit resurrection..omg noooo. That'd be way too sad.

For the record, the "old Shadow Court" was not a cohesive unit, something which people are trying very hard forget now that they have affected a regime rollover. I think it would be poor form to throw the baby out with the bathwater in an aggressively impatient (yes, I've started using that phrase a lot recently) attempt to enact change for change's sake. Unfortunately, I get the feeling this is exactly what a lot of people, both player and administrator, would like.

Anyway, Elostian was one thing even political rivals tended to agree on. From what I can tell, the Court agreed on Elostian more than they did on Narsrim. Scary, huh?

In response to Elostian's assertion that he in no way wants to become a patron of Glomdoring, that's great. I understand. I sympathize and feel for any and all players of Viravain's character. I think Glomdoring is a very, very, very challenging place to play in at all levels, for a variety of reasons. However, it would be foolish and ignorant to say that what occurred with her most recent incarnation was a one-way rub. It wasn't.

Veyda won't change Glom, I could tell right after he didn't kick you out. That's why I am eventually leaving now, or a big part of it. I was hoping he might make Glom more...I dunno, but in the end, he won't.
BringbackAckleplz.

Oh, yeah. There seems to be a lot of publically-known nasty hissy political shat going on between members, too. That's never healthy for them, their citizens or their patrons.

(Not aimed at Ash, even though his post made me remember.)

Its not?

That was uncalled for. You may not agree or get along with Yeralih, but she's hardly some lynchpin of Glomdoring's problems. If we kick out everyone who has gone for someone else's throat in Glomdoring, we'll have no leaders left.

Yeralih has put a lot into Glomdoring and also suffered because of it, just like many key participants have, and Glomdoring would be the worse without her. It's already the worse for people who are leaving/have left recently. Let's not compound that particular problem.

FYI, Glomdoring is not in danger of getting deleted.

One of the issues is that Glomdoring really hasn't grown as much as some of you seem to think. More importantly, Glomdoring has trouble retaining newbies as well as having a history of driving away established players who disagree with the leadership. Basically, for those who do not "toe the party line" in Glomdoring, there is an endemic history of their being persecuted to where they feel they have to leave -- and I've heard enough anecdotal stories that such persecution gets carried out through IM's, so-called OOC clans, IRC, etc. that I suspect there's some fire beneath the smoke. In any event, since the playerbase of Glomdoring has kept their leadership in place and not voted them out, I have to only conclude that this is the type of leadership that the commune wants. Yes, I know the Dark Marshall has recently been replaced and perhaps this is indicative of a change in policy (or perhaps not) which is one of the things we'll discuss at the meeting.

I reject any theory that the reason for the above situation has anything to do with the roleplaying setting, or whether Glomdoring is "tainted" or not, or whether Viravain is controlling or not. I feel that none of that has any bearing with the atmosphere in Glomdoring. If the policies and atmosphere has been generated by the player leadership (as I believe it has), then I hope the leaders will belly up to the bar and accept their responsibility. That said, I don't blame the leaders per se, communes (and all player orgs) are set up so the leaders can run the commune as they see fit and the onus is on the commune members to vote them out if they don't like it.

To put it more bluntly, Glomdoring has a very hardcore roleplaying setting. Some people enjoy this -- fair enough. However, new players that go there aren't being retained in the long term. It appears to me that while some people may *think* roleplay there is neat when they first start, they eventually become tired of it and leave (or find themselves on the wrong side of the leadership policies and thus leave).

If Glomdoring wants to continue to be an exclusive hardcore organization, I'm not going to fight it. But to retain it as it is will require some changes which we'll discuss at the meeting. If Glomdoring wants to change what we perceive as its exclusivity and hardcore roleplaying atmosphere, we will be open to hearing how this may be accomplished. We're going to let the players in Glomdoring guide us on what they want for their commune.

Because I want the last post and to kill the thread.

The sort of visciousness that arises in these games is why I have not bought credits more than what I have (once and only once). This also ties into Elostians natural selection thread. Heated animosity always developes. When I buy a cd, or a game, or a book even if I don't end up liking the product I have physical merchandise with which to attempt to regain my investment. I am hesitent because I have a great fear of buyers remorse. It is sort of like going out on the town. I'm afraid of instead of a good meal and a few drinks I'll end up with a hangover in a strange location.


Ninja'ed by the head honcho.

Let me see if I can explain myself better.

I recognize that in glomdoring, we expect people to be self motivators and don't feel we have the time or energy to spend time with young people, unless those people are interesting enough to want to talk to them, and hear what they think. That is likely an isue, but without having employees hidden as secret players, I don't know how that would change.

I don't think that young people in Glomdoring have any idea, or are able to fashion an idea on thier own, of what part of Glomdoring they would like to see emphasized or focused on in the public setting. I think this is the case because what Glomdoring is is too aloof.

Glomdoring works for the betterment of Glomdoring. The Wyrd is Glomdoring incarnate. But nobody new, ever knows what that really means. Do we worship the fae, or do we secretly oppress the fae? Do we try to seduce people to us? or are we trying to dominate people with a blunt stick? Is Wyrd a metaphor for weeds and Kudzu, or is a metaphor for a more beutiful form of nature? or is it just another form of the Taint, and corruption is a good thing?

I think many of the more established charachters can all easily answer these questions, but I don't think any of the new players can latch on to anything the way they can in Magnagora or Celest or Serenwilde. Each of the other places have a simple concept that they know what it means in english and they can follow it.

Celest = Light = Christianity
Magnagora = Taint = Corruption/Change = Secularism/Greed is good
Serenwilde = Nature = Natural order of things = Naturalism/Wiccan

Then we have Glomdoring which is what?
Glomdoring = Twisted Nature = Evil spirits = Post modernism... who under 18 years of age can understand post modernism?


edit: THose are obviously gross generalizations, but only once a player is able to play the game for a while will they see that, but initially, its something they can grasp onto.