Well, seem is one thing, be is another.

Random side question: Shiri said that Introspection is worthless for monks, but the AB file says it increases endurance regeneration. Do monks not use enough endurance to matter? Because if it's basically just a alternative to MED then it shouldn't be worthless if monks use endurance to any great extent.

Syntax: INTROSPECTION
This is a deeper form of meditation, whereby you can regenerate mana, ego and
willpower more quickly.

Ah, I was going off the wiki which says:

Introspection- No channels. A meditation that recovers mana, ego, willpower and endurance faster than normal.

My mistake. Maybe Introspection could include endurance? Even though it makes no sense whatsoever? Because even as a mage I don't think I've meditated in close to a RL year...

I think we envoyed that but it was rejected. Instead, the endurance costs were reduced to not be stupid. It has the same net effect of meaning I never lose endurance, so whatever.

That would be useful for young monks who might run out of endurance, but I have never had any problem with endurance through long hunting trips. Our endurance use is something similar to what warriors use, so not enough to really be a problem in most cases.

Regeneration is + regen on top of 3 body mantras and mercy, it is the only thing keeping me alive most of the time. Please don't take it from me!

This thread hasn't really generated a lot of useful ideas so far, so I'll throw a few out just to get the ball rolling. Most of these are off of the top of my head and not well-thought-out, so feel free to criticize and post counter-suggestions.

1. CellAdjustment -- I'm not really sure what to do with this skill. One idea would be to have it cure certain "body" afflictions (mending/arnica type afflictions, not regeneration afflictions). Another idea is to have it drastically reduce bleeding, or possibly even "cure" bleeding completely. In either case, it should be moved up in the skillset and allowed on the Superstratus channel only.

2. Regeneration -- I think that the regeneration for harmony users is too much. To make this skill more useful, I would actually like to see regeneration from harmony -PHET mantras changed so they are weighted. One mantra gives 5% regen, two mantras give 8%, three mantras give 10%. The psymet regeneration ability, then, would add 5% unweighted regen on top of other regens, for a max (not counting mercy/etc) of 15% regen instead of the current 20% regen. That makes this skill worthwhile and drops the massive regen abilities we already have slightly.

3. Doublepain -- I have to reserve suggestions for this since our wounding formula still seems to be under construction. When we only do 300 wounds in a combo, the 5% bonus is basically useless. If our wounding is going to be low, I would like to see this boosted to 10%. If our wounding stays up, though, the 5% bonus may be fine.

4. Mindfield -- This is an interesting idea for flavor, but useless for normal life. I don't know how much damage it actually causes, but if it is as minor as I expect, I would like this to be changed so it doesn't require a locked channel. So you lose 100 health when you scry a psymet monk? That's not enough to even be noticeable unless you are spam-scrying.

5. Pheremones -- This is another ability that is nice in theory, but it doesn't really perform better than love potion in any case. It would be useful if we were mages or something, but as monks it never matters whether someone is on our allies list or not, so the side-effects of love potion rarely hurt us. This skill is basically useless, but unfortunately I don't have any great ideas for how to improve it. Suggestions?

6. Lifedrain -- As already discussed, with regeneration this skill is redundant. Instead of what it currently does, I'd like to see this changed so that it converts 10% of your damage into mana or ego damage (you can choose which). This might actually make it more feasible to pull off the akhangooshkrak kill, and would have other uses in groups.

7. Forcedsymmetry -- Instead of converting the wounds against you and splitting them between limbs, why not make this an offensive skill? This would take all of the wounds you do to a target's limbs and split them evenly between the two limbs. So, for example, if I have this up and attack their right leg, the wounding is actually split between right and left. This would only be useful situationally, especially since it requires a locked channel, but it is much better than it is now.

Against that. I just tested with Zridic, he did 800 damage a combo and got up to 1100 pretty fast, with wounds requiring more than one application to cure. If you spread the damage from health/wounds to health/wounds/ego or health/wounds/mana then you'd prolly get back in curing even faster than right now.

That may be true with the way things currently are after the changes, but I doubt it will be that way for long. Monk wounds are messed up right now (I do 900 wounds with just a punch and a kick to greatrobes), so it's probably not a good time to judge on that just yet. I expect they'll be fixed within the next couple of days.

Harmony regen is not too much. Regen actually matters a crapload less than damage reduction, and it's situational.

Celladjustment would probably be terrible even if it cured arnica stuff, simply because we can't afford to waste time on psy balance like that.

Mindfield is terrible, and I don't think it can be salvaged because any kind of temporary cost to scrying you is just irrelevant.

Pheromones is useful in exactly 1 situation, and only marginally then: a fight wherein there are both bards or mages you want to block but also a tarot guardian or tarot bard you don't want to be lusted to. In this situation it will be better than love potion because love potion will backfire on you an average of every 2 minutes you continuously stay in the room (in a medium-size fight.) In all others it's completely obsoleted because monks don't give a crap about who they have allied and only guardians and bards with tarot care if they have anyone allied. This completely narrow situation is far too rare and irrelevant (you can just reject the bard if it does go wrong with love potion, instead of losing the channel access the whole time) so the skill is pretty much useless statistically. That rant out of the way, the only way I can think of fixing it is to have it only work on enemies, so the monk can enemy one person (the mage) and have it tick every 20 seconds instead of love on the rest of the group. It's still useless in solo, but at least this way it'll have a minor application in team combat. Speeding the timer up to 15 seconds would also work.

With the recent changes and updates, do you still think this would be a problem? It doesn't seem like too much to me, especially since one-on-one you can usually ignore mana/ego drain. The monk would have to get you to 2/3 health/mana/ego to get an instakill, and since this is an id/super channel ability it takes them 4-6 seconds to change between the two. You could basically ignore mana/ego damage unless you notice them stop attacking for several seconds (giving you time to cure) while they switch whether it hurts mana/ego. So, it shouldn't actually stop you from keeping up in sipping and applications, I think, but it does provide an option for skilled monks and it actually meshes some with other monk skills.



I think this has actually changed now with the nerf to damage reduction. Even before that...I have 3740 max health. With that, just with non-power guild skills, I can regen just under 750 health each tick. If I had racial regen/mercy/any other regens, it would actually stack with that. I think that is just too much.

What do you think of an id skill that would instantly cure all bleeding? I could imagine it being situationally useful, but most classes don't actually kill with bleeding unless they also back it up with a lot of afflictions (like druids). Though if this were usable in sap it would be too powerful I think, since it would basically disable the druids only kill method.



Agreed. I can't even think of any useful replacements for it, though.



That could be interesting...I like the idea of pheremones only ticking against enemies, and being 15 seconds. I think even both of those together wouldn't be unbalancing, since it's usually easy enough for the mage to just reject/re-enemy unless they're not paying attention. I'm still not sure it would be worth a locked channel, but that sounds a lot better than it is now.

Rather than celladjustment being a one-off curer with bleeding, I thought an interesting alternative would be to have it "forcefield" and autoclot bleeding for you out of your ego.

Regens still only tick every 10 seconds, so that's still not as overwhelming as it looks, though it is certainly handy. I think maybe we need to wait on the damage changes to finalise.

My idea for mindfield was to make it drain 1-2% reserves per to yours, since that actually lets you benefit from people scrying you and also acts as a disincentive/annoyance to do it on you. It also doesn't imbalance anything at all. That got vetoed by some envoy for their own reasons, though, so I think it'd probably just need to be replaced.

In order for person A's mindfield to hit person B, one of the two has to declare the other first. Otherwise person B can scry with impunity without taking damage. What if mindfield made it necessary to declare in order to scry someone with mindfield? So if you don't declare, and have PK Careful on, Avechna stops you from scrying.

In normal circumstances (Mag) Revan says, "Scry on Mimi now!" it's not going to affect the people sitting that the Megalith to have to declare Mimi first, but it does mean that you are still taking damage from scrying the monk every time you do it. Which as previously mentioned is negligible normally, but scrying every second at even 500-1000 damage a pop will at least make them suck down health vials.

I don't know how the code for Avenger works, but it'd be a nice change if it could be done.

I think scry would just have to be made aggressive across the board for that to work.

I didn't read the whole thing but if you think gliding can be replaced by an enchant I want you to stop smoking what you are.

Gliding does something NO other skill in the game does and something NO enchant can ever give you. If you don't know what I'm talking about then you obviously don't know the skill much. (Actually trackers might have it.. but I'm not sure that change went in).

Get off gliding, it's an awesome skill.

Umm....we definitely covered that point already. Far less aggressively, too.


Edit: For Shiri's version of CellAdjustment, it should be a slightly higher rate of clotting than normal. Typing CLOT cures 20 bleeding for what, 100-150 mana? So it's about 5-6 times to convert the health damage into mana damage. For a locked channel, somthing more like three times? So when you start bleeding (Where you stat says "You are bleeding 500" damage) but before you actually bleed (taking the health damage) you'd get a message like "With a surge of concentration you knit together your bleeding wounds" and you'd lose 1500 ego.

That has already been mentioned, but I still don't completely agree. It is useful enough for a master-level skill, so I don't think it's worth replacing, but I never actually use it for anything other than as a glorified waterwalk enchant. It has other uses, but they are pretty few.



I think that would be difficult in that it would either drain more than you had to, or require a lot of extra coding. For example, what if you were only bleeding for 100 damage? Losing 1500 ego to cure that would be too much, but putting in code to make the ego cost scale with how much bleeding you're curing might be complicated.

I didn't mean a flat rate of 1500. That was based on the example of bleeding 500. And it would be almost exactly the same thing as spamming CLOT repeatedly, just with a different cost. It shouldn't be that difficult to set EgoCost = bleeding*3. The cost of illusions are based on the number of characters, at least in other games (I don't think they are here, though.) But either way, there is a precedent for skills that change in cost according to a variable.

Either way, though, it's better not to assume about the difficulty of implementing the code. Work on the raw skill ideas and let the administration decide whether or not it's worth it to code. The worst thing that can happen is that the admin say the same thing you just did, where if censor ourselves then decent ideas don't get passed along because it might be turned down.

Edit: Ideas on whether it should just auto-clot on ego as soon as you get any bleeding (including if you put it up already bleeding) or if it should be on a channel or regen timer? If it's on a timer ego-for-bleeding cost should be lower than if you never bleed with this skill active.

We still have to work out some sort of limit. If we do EgoCost=bleeding*3 and the person is bleeding for 1500, they might not want to use the ability. The will want to if their bleeding is only 300, though. So, would we say egocost=bleeding*3, to a max of 100 bleeding each "clot"? We could also think about something like a constant bleeding reduction (more than enchants), but at a cost of a regular drain to ego or something.