Is there any reason why both the winner and the loser of a spar can't keep their defs after exiting the arena?

I realize this could probably be abused to def for free, but really, how many people are going to go through the trouble of entering the arena with someone else, eating a few herbs, then one of them killing the other? They allow this in Imperian, and I've never noticed any problems stemming from it.

I'd love to see this change added in, because sparring would be so much more fun if I didn't have to redef between each bout, using power, herbs, vials, etc, etc.

EDIT: If this is not an admin controlled thing, but rather by the people running the arena, I'm going to feel dumb. >_>

I've known a couple people who abused the arena for deffing up. You can let the "spar" time out, but it takes about ten minutes.

People do abuse the arena occasionally (refreshing endurance/willpower for one thing) but it's pretty rare. I tend to only use herb/potion defs once I'm in the arena, but that's because I only def up completely when I'm about to fight. I still use my enchantments outside of the arena.

If I know I'm going to be sparring several times in a row, then I'll just re-def in the arena. Then at the end, I do everything like I just logged in.

So in short, I doubt people would really abuse it enough to make it an issue (what's-his-face was abusing journals to be AFK, was shrubbed, and that was that) but I also don't think that it makes much of a difference as-is.

it's also annoying that if we want to play in an arena game or spar, some of us have to wait till night time to drawdown or nightkiss or do it outside the arena.

It would definitely be nice.

And I really don't think it would get abused that much, if at all. And even if people did use it to def up, I can't imagine it having any effect on the game.

A major difference between defences here and defences in the other IRE games is that most of the good defences cost power. If power can just be kept by losing in the arena, a lot of power would be saved by everyone. I, for one, would end up using about 10 power in total every IG year. Of course, regular fighters would use more, but most people don't fight, so end up using none at all.

I find it annoying that even when I win, i lose things like invisibility, malkuth, and phantomarmour. Tis annoying. As I stated previously

if you spend power in the arena it all comes back after the aerena events thus you dont waste power that way.

Yeah you do if you had power defs up -before- the spar and then have to get them again after the spar is over.

I can imagine it being the most annoying for people with night / moon skill though. Drawdown / nightkiss costs 10p and is -essential- for wiccans (and to a lesser extend to the warriors with those skills). Plus, you can only do it during nighttime in the arena, otherwise even between spars you have to waste 10p every time to do it in a manse with drawers.

PS: Was that seriously changed btw? The winner used to keep their defs, or both participants if they timed out..

I don't think it was changed, but Deschain just meant for the loser to keep defs as well. His wording made me read it twice, but I think that's what it meant.

Nah it's fine for the loser to lose them:


The winner keeps defs.

The loser gets refreshed endurance / willpower.


Sounds fair to me.

I should have italicized "and" in my post.

And I don't think it's that fair. The loser is, more often than not, the one trying to learn how to fight, and usually will be sparring several times in a row. And it may not be -needed-, but I really enjoy being able to go into a fight with stagform (10p), and if I'm going to have that ability in non-arena fights, I want to be able to train with it in the arena. Also, refreshing willpower/endurance means nothing to me, I never run out of either unless I've been dreamweaving a lot, which is very, very rare.

A few people have said that you can just def up in the arena, but look at this:

1. Use stagform, 10p (wait for power to come back)
2. Spiritbond nature, 5p (wait for power to come back)
3. Yellow, 3p (wait for power to come back)
4. Every other def that requires equilibrium/balance
5. Meld/Set up Demesne

That's a lot of waiting around before actually being able to fight. If I could just skip everything but the demesne part, it would be fine.

The willpower/endurance thing shouldn't be a "tradeoff." It should just discount it as a death for all such purposes.

2. Don't spiritbond nature. Write a defup script, you'll fly through them in seconds. Also, free defenses like this can be done outside to save in-arena time.

I understand, and agree in concept. The problem is that it is very abusable. People who spar often would never have to pay for defenses again. Even if they approach it ICly - I might just like to start every day off with a nice spar, to get myself warmed up. I would never have to pay for power defs/enchantments/frost/fire/kafe/quicksilver/etc.. That's a pretty big problem. I would rather deal with paying extra power to lose instead of opening the door to that kind of abuse.

I think the cost of the non-power part of those defs adds up to like 100 gold each time - less than the cost of a spar in some arenas.

I take 3p to def up - 1p if I can be bothered to use bodyfuel (which I can't because I'm usually maxed out from Astral anyway.) Other classes take a lot more. It doesn't make sense to have it be a balancing factor because it's just irritating without any actual effect on class combat, the economy, etc. etc., especially given how free power actually is in practice. Even as a Moondancer I was maxed out on Astral, and they're one of the more power-intensive classes in the game (and yes, I used shine every day.)

And that's if people can be bothered to "abuse" it. Amaru always did, but no one else couuld really be bothered.

The conplaint of "abuse" here just doesn't carry enough weight, in my mind, to be a proper counterargument for something that would make sparring more convenient and encouraging.

Perhaps you just hang around with too many innocent people. It is abused on a pretty regular basis even now. As an MD, even I used to "abuse" it ICly by sparring with people that I knew I could easily beat primarily because I could get free defenses, not because I could gain anything. You might not think many people would abuse this, but I would argue they absolutely will.

The cost of those defs might add up to 100 gold each time. Multiply that by the number of people who would abuse it, then multiply it again by the number of times they log in, and it has a large impact on the economy.

Spars cost me like 500 gold in avenger, and I think 300 in the glade.

The economy is one thing. I think for most people power is actually the more motivating factor. You never really died that often, even as an MD. I never found it that easy to stay at max power except when I was champion, so it was always tempting to set up things like drawdown/hexaura/etc. in the arena instead of outside.

I did die that often, heh. Power is the motivating factor, but given how free that is no one really "loses out" anyway. Technically it is limited, but I seriously don't think there's any need to hassle over it.