Just to sate some curiosity...

Partially reformatted envoy report.

That's an old report (so no getting on anyone's case--most of those issues have been dead and gone for months), and fairly uncontroversial. Ours is a little prettier, but it had to be reformatted into Wikipedia code. It's also not completely reformatted. Turning comments into

comments proved to be a little time consuming. You can just read the code if you're curious.

The final report is that thing up top. That's what we've asked the admin to consider. Down below is the discussion part of the wiki. Some actual discussion happens on the wiki. A lot of discussion happens on the envoy channel. There's no way to tell what stemmed from what, most of the time. You also don't see skills that were removed altogether because of discussion. It's possible there were several vetoes or bouts of vocal disapproval that didn't stay until the end of the report.

I'm sure most of you will read that and say it's no big deal, but, like I said, they're dead issues. That wouldn't be the case if Shorlen and Yini were both active envoys and fetish balance was still being considered. Can't you imagine Shorlen's guildmates disapproving of vetoing a suggestion to give more power to his guild's weakest tertiary skill?

Anyways, that's just to help with the curiosity about what a report looks like.

That brings back memories, Xavius. Malarious told me not to be such a "downer"!

Some things never change, eh? What a downer you are.

And look, it even had an overpowered spawn upgrade!

Indeed, some things never change.

I can't see anyone complaining who is reasonable, no. People like..Amaru would probably complain if they missed out on upgrades to their own skills, but I am pretty sure most people can follow basic reasoning.

Should post a few of our spawn/telepathy psi shield/tumble/Visaeris-related/green-or-gedulah/MagvsCelest/other bias discussions.

Edit: I can't believe I didn't put Choke in there!

Oh no you don't. Ghosts can't cross water because of the old bit of lore that evil spirits can't. Pick one - mythos or balance.

I didn't make nor argue for that change. I'm arguing against giving an already useful escape skill even more power.

More power? Putrefaction is only used when someone is jumped while bashing. I can't think of anyone, anyone at all, who uses it offensively. Especially with the damage ugprades warriors got with stat weighting and the like - and after all, no flesh to ooze away. The lack of bleeding, due to the incredibly limited actions while in ghost form, essentially stops ghost being a deathsentence if you're not a demigod and bleeding for more than 100. In ghost, you can look, look at, nativeform, move, and listen to conversations in says. That's it. Bleed is also a problem with violet/kether. And don't even get me started onbanish, yeech. Banish is hideous alone. Violet and Kether, if you're not bleeding, are unpleasant and enough to kill you if you're not Shamarah Speedwalking. Bleeding with those being used is a guaranteed death unless you drop out to cure, which means people appearing again.

I know Daevos and Thoros both use it offensively. Ghost is not a death sentence. The times you've ghosted out of Celest, Yrael, you have died to my kether and not to the afflictions. If you're concerned about putre, turn it off before you ghost. If you're concerned about bleeding, cure the afflictions before you ghost. It's not that difficult. I could recode part of my system if I wanted to just to eliminate bleeding affs.

See, you ghost to escape death, if you can manage it. Typically, by that point, you're seriously injured, afflicted, etc. And it's ghost or die. Now, it's either die, or stop to cure the bleeding afflictions and gho - wait, I died to the Swarm. If you ghost, you've got a few more seconds before you bleed out (Not to mention people know exactly where you are). And Daevos doesn't play anymore. At least, not seriously. Thoros, incase you haven't noticed, is an ebonguard. And regularly, I die to kether because bleeding has put me in the danger zone.

Thoros as a Nihilist and Ur'Guard, Yrael. I know he is an Ebonguard now. However, he was an extremely good example of a fighter with Necromancy who knew how to use his skills. Daevos also knew how to use his skills. I'm not sure why their switching has anything to do with it, as I don't believe they were motivated by the supposed underpoweredness of ghost.

If you find yourself dying to bleeding, CLOT and cure arteries.

Can't do that Ali, it would show Forren is indeed biased, and he will order your death through the internet mob



Actually Forren, one of the last things Daevos was upset about was the insane Telek bleeding, in which he was hit for about 7000-8000 bleeding, and I think it happened through ghost (or was still bleeding that much while ghosted). I think they fixed it though, but not sure.

Rofl. Ildaudid, you need to learn facts instead of rumors.

The reports would likely show the unreasonable requests, unreasonable vetoes, and override attempts of some envoys.

Telekinetic bleeding at 12 vessels is a little over a thousand, not 9000. I'm actually in support of a minor nerf to the bleeding caused by these vessels.

Fact: Daevos was pissed about the insane bleeding.
Fact: The bleeding on me alone was 4000-5000
Fact: The bleeding Daevos was complaining about was right about 7000
Fact: Someone else (I cannot remember who) was complaining about them ending up with 9000 bleeding
Fact: Revan tested it with Arimissa, and he found out how fast the bleeding was. And how high it went. Which was alot higher than 1000.
Fact: I never said the envoy reports would show the amount of bleeding done.


Any other facts I missed for you?

I highly doubt that - right now it's 70 bleeding per vessel. Do the math. If it was 5k on you, you were instakillable several times over.

No one gets to 5k bleeding from a skill that progressively stacks up small bits of bleeding. Ever.

Methinks Forren needs to learn to read - in 95% of the situations, you ghost, or you die next time they get balance back. You don't stop to cure bleeding.

The bolded part is the key. Learn to read before you speak Forren, yes it may have been fixed but when you or Narsrim (can't remember which one of you pushed for the original change) it was really out of control at the start. If you noticed, Daevos hasn't been seen much lately so it is not likely he would have been complaining about this as of yesterday. I did the math, I watched my bleeding and I know what it used to be. If I actually find the time I will pull an old log of claws and vessels stacked on top of each other to give the over the top bleeding. But ask Revan, as soon as we saw it hitting like that I told Revan and he tested it too. I know Ixion had it happen, and a few other Magnagorans where asking why they were bleeding so much, when the change was initiated. You may not have seen it much since I don't think Mag has very many Teleks, I actually think Arimissa is one of the only Telek's Magnagora has active right now.



Sorry Xavius, but it did give 5k+ bleeding on telek's, even more when combined with phantom claws. And even worse when claws, a few vessels, then you were thrown into a bubble or stoned where you could not cure the bleeding and it stacked and stacked and stacked. So yes, you shouldn't get that much bleeding, but you did. Which again is a reason why it was fixed (I think it was at least). But you are right, it should never have happened, but it did happen.


Like I said, they may have fixed it by now. I think Myndaen said they were fixing it, or someone else said it was to be fixed in the last envoy thing. Which it is possible it was. Since those types of fixes are not spoken in the actual announces aka "ninja nerfs/upgrades".

But honestly Forren, if you are even trying to say that when the first change was made, that the telek. bleeding that was happening was not insane, you really need to step back and take off your rose colored glasses. The fact remains that WHEN Daevos was playing more, before he slipped away, he did complain about the bleeding. Also if you don't believe ask anyone who actually fought a telekenitic in the first couple weeks of that change. I think if you asked people instead of just thinking you know what you are talking about all the time, you may actually get some facts correct.

Rofl.

Ildaudid - the vessels have and continue to do 70-75ish per vessel. This is called multiplication. 70 * 12 vessels = 840 bleeding. It's not my fault if you don't clot and/or use a kingdom enchant. If you get higher bleeding than this, you are instakillable anyway. It has not been changed since the boost.

Myndaen said they were fixing it - it's getting slightly nerfed in the CURRENT envoy report. I'm an envoy. Hence, I know the current report.