No Scent for pets, please. That's so pointless for Shuck/Patchou.

I do like the idea of Specs for pets, though. Most likely wouldn't happen, but...that'd be very, very nice.

While everyone responded to the "champions might need a boost" statement, you all seem to have skipped over the first half of my statement, where I tried to raise the point that champions are about more than fighting well. There may be a very good champion who cannot fight incredibly well on their own. They might not be able to go out and kill all of the enemies, but if they can rescue, set up guild defenses, train, and they are willing to put some work in, they can make a very good champion. I don't think we should always assume that the champion should be the best fighter in the guild - that sort of thinking has led us to most of the horrible champions we've had over the years.

He does have a point there

Yet it doesn't explain why a champion whose role is training guildmembers rather than PKing people needs an artifact that makes them better at PKing people. It seems unnecessary whichever way you look at it.

Point 1: People should be given some limited reward for the extra responsibility and work they're asked to do, and grief they're asked to accept.
Point 2: Champions shouldn't need nor receive a boost to combat ability when they already have to be good at combat to get the job.

Proposal: Take away the combat boosts, then give them boosts that are personally beneficial in ways not related to combat. For instance, how about a 10% experience bonus? The never-need-to-sleep-and-eat boost of level 80? A small "karma regen" (say, 1 per hour)?

Corrolary: The same sorts of things could be given to the other guild leaders.

The bonuses of being a Champion haven't made people in my guild jump at the chance for the position. It's a bit depressing sometimes to realize that I could remain uncontested for decades, partially because of a lack of people who want the position and partially because those who don't want the position believe that I'm the better candidate.

I wouldn't be against altering the benefits of being a Champion, but even with the Helm (and all my skills and lots and lots of other equipment), I can barely manage to hold my ground against a single, well-equipped demigod. Some people are just that hard to kill, I'm afraid.

I would be okay with something like the suggestion that champ artis benefit the person in some way besides one-on-one combat. I like the idea of the group benefits mentioned in one of the posts, but it would have to be done carefully to be useful but not too much. It also doesn't directly benefit the champion in any way, but I don't think the other guild artifacts really directly benefit their owners either, do they?



You are more reasonable than most people, though, and you are not a demigod yourself. Imagine people like Thoros. He gets 1-hit pinlegs now, imagine if he had a helm to go with it.

The GM's artifact benefits him or her not at all, and my artifact does nothing useful for me except, uh, letting me teleport/summon/scry novices in my own guild for free. Which is not to say that I'm complaining about it, as it's very cute and gets me some statistics (which aren't that useful, but they're nice to have) I would otherwise have great difficulty in obtaining.

The problem wouldn't be the Helm, though. It would be Thoros. That was my point. I've got all my skills, a Champion Helm, a decent combat system, AND about 13k credits worth of artifacts, but still I cannot take on a single demigod and win. Sure, my tactics are lacking, and I admit to that, but it's a little beside the point.

He actually almost got that helm.

It is possible to take on a Demigod and win with the Helm and the number of credits in artifacts you said you possess. So I would suggest that it is probably your tactics that make it not possible for you. Therefore, your tactics are not beside the point.

I'll be waiting for pointers from the peanut gallery then.

(I've killed other demigods and done fairly well one-on-one, just not against a demigod warrior.)

I would like to say that the second part of Point 2 (the assumption that they are good at combat) is more of an ideal and is not always an actuality with Lusty's population.

You will be waiting a long time, because most of the good combatants are on the front line.

I dislike experience bonuses/penalties intensely, of all kinds. Aside from that, the other two suggestions would be fine.

I'd also like them to have something similar to the group-based bonuses I mentioned before. I don't actually like the idea that the main powers of champions are intended for interceding in any guildmember battle. It somewhat ruins any conflict that isn't based along nation lines, and must be incredibly frustrating. If player X of about your might insults and berates you, then attempts to kill you, I certainly wouldn't want Demigod Y appearing in their place when you attempt to enact revenge. (Of course, you are probably likely to be enemied to their guild/city on touching them, which I think is at least in part a consequence of the Champion mindset. Reasons don't matter, killing is just killing.)

I like to think of them more as leaders and teachers of the guild in combat matters, which is why powers and bonuses that encourage that would make more sense than individual pk bonuses.

There is already a huge boost that people are forgetting about for champions.

Champions suffer no karma loss on PK. If I were to kill someone now, I'd lose the number of my suspect list in karma. It's how I lost two karma blessings on Nil earlier.

This alone is godly. This plus rescue is even better. I don't see how you need +15% damage or +wounding to train someone to be better.

I'm talking about replacements, not additions.

I agree with Forren, kill me now plz.

Maybe I'm just not as big of a griefer as you are, but I don't see no karma loss as being all that useful. There is rarely a reason to have more than 2-3 people on your suspects list, so the karma loss for PK is minimal unless you go around killing everyone you see. I have never even drained my karma below 50% with blessings and all the PK I want.

I think I've been on one suspect list since the system was implemented, and that's only because it took me a while to chase down the raider after she fled the village. I know there are problems with the Avenger system, but if you play nicely, you never have to worry about your karma blessings going away on you. I see that as being the whole point of the system. The unfortunate thing is when it truly gets in the way, usually because someone found a loophole in the system.

As for being on the front lines, I'm there when it's about defense. I'm not the offender type, however, so I miss out on opportunities to learn about good group strategies. I'll never be a true leader, though, and I've told people this numerous times.

More on topic (sorry for the side stuff), I have a hard time training people who don't want to spar me because I'm so OP (compared to them). The Helm doesn't factor into that because I use a regular old helm for sparring, but people do still "fear" the Helm and shy away from a fight.