This is basically it. You can actually cure any of those afflictions along the way, escape, etc.. Also, while those locks do prevent curing, they are usually escapable using all-cure abilities like green/gedulah/allheale/focus something/etc. They also do not prevent other actions like escaping. The only similar problems I can think of are things like pinleg-whoring, which I think are a similar problem.

Bard stun/transfix locks are basically unavoidable, unless you choose not to use earwort. If you don't use earwort, you have to deal with song effects which usually lead to massive damage, and even without stun the transfix time is enough to keep you extremely slow. There's no real way to stun, and transfix is a very slow cure. It is basically an unavoidable lock which no cure.

Thanks for the explanation! I really appreciate it, and it does seem like something of a Catch-22 with earwort use.

I have a similar question now, though. If locks are out, and minorsecond damage is out (I've heard complaints about both of these on the forums, and the popular argument seems to be that both should be greatly weakened), what viable strategies do bards have for combat? I'm sure the guilds all have their own quirks, but I mean in general terms. We can't take hits well, and it seems as if most of the effective bard fighters are generally derided for using "lame" tactics, so as someone who'll likely be purchasing credits with her tax refund, I'd like to know what options remain.

What I've found is that if the target can cure well, and tank your damage, it's very hard to kill them. The instakill is ridiculously easy to stop, so hopefully at some point in the near future discordant chord will get fixed and that will be a viable option.

Well, I would like to see those lame tactics reduced to be viable tactics. Transfix should remain, but the writhe time should be reduced. Stun should be removed from blanknote, but you should still have to wait for your ears to re-open before eating again. Minorsecond damage should be reduced quite a bit in my opinion, but you can still do quite a bit of damage if you get manabarbs/egovice on the target. Glamours is also very powerful, and you can give a good number of afflictions very quickly.

I think bards would still be viable, though they might need more tweaking after the changes I'd like to see. Manabarbs and egovice would still be powerful for a bard, and transfix would still be usable to slow down your opponent's offense. Things like hunger/sleep are amazing in group combat, but one-on-one they don't seem very reliable for bards since they take so long to build up and you are relatively squishy. I don't really see a huge problem with that, but I also wouldn't mind seeing hunger/sleep sped up and bleeding increased for gloms slightly. I don't know much about the cantors and what they would need to be workable without the massive damage and stun/transfix/etc. they rely on now, but I expect they would be okay. Glamours alone deals a good number of afflictions very quickly; with room affects bards can afflict more quickly than anyone else - even with reduced minorsecond, reduced use of music (because of stun removal), and shorter transfix, I think they could still be dangerous.

Yeah, hunger is dangerous in group combat if the enemies don't have earwort. And who doesn't have earwort? What am I going to do, sit and do nothing but blanknote them all and hope sickeningplague ticks when they're not deaf? Also most good fighters are going to be carrying food, especially when fighting Mag (geos + caco).

Blanknote also blocks truehearing for a time.

- Don't know about lowering transfix writhe time, can't really say. Maybe.

- Stuns needs fixing all around, not just with Bards.

- DischordantChord needs to be useful

- BlankNote stun just needs to be removed, it was added because Bards back then.. well.. sucked.. But they do not now, and with the earwort delay.. It's not really needed. Earwort should not be a Catch-22 situation with Bards.

- I like pie.

lol at reducing transfix writhing time, I doubt that will happen.

DischordantChord is insanly high power and cures the afflictions after being used.. useless...

Stun will be removed, but I seriously doubt that will stop people from whineing about bards.

Right now, if they're using earwort they can be permalocked with stun/transfix. So, yes, let them use earwort, then switch to damage instead of hunger.

If these changes do actually go through, then you can still use blanknote because it blocks truehearing for a minute. For someone whoring earwort, you should still have time to get manabarbs/egovice in and do some damage, especially if you throw out a lot of glamours afflictions. In most cases, it's better for me to just not use earwort and deal with the starvation. I do think hunger will have to be sped up if we remove stun and shorten transfix time, mostly because it's so easily curable by just eating the food that we all carry (we do all carry food, right?)

EDIT: @Daereth you're probably right, it won't stop people whining, mainly because there are other problems with bards that need to be fixed besides the stun time. That's a start, but there's more to do still.

Hunger doesn't need improving. Nor does tiredness. Hunger is slightly less criminal because it's "cured" by food, but both are still flawed non-dynamic mechanics that shouldn't by any means be the focal point of a specialised skill.

That's not what I was saying, I'm saying that even if you fix all the things that you don't like becuse you can't deal with it, people are still going to whine.

They will stop whining when the only viable option we have of killing anything is our 100 damage minorsecond that has a 50% chance of healing the target.

This isn't a very good way of hiding from the fact that bards are overpowered. Maybe there are always whiners, but...what we have here is objectively still a problem!

Bards arn't anymore overpowered than any of the other overpowered skills the other archtypes have, I'll name a few for you:

Warriors = Pinleg whore
Shadowdancers = Choke
Moondancers = Aeon
Monks = Perma-stun broken nose and instant death if you don't hinder them before the 3rd combo becuse they are so damn fast you can't do anything.

You named one overpowered skill each from two archetypes, one good-but-not-overpowered skill from three other guilds, and a bug (and unsubstantiated and erroneous exaggeration) which is getting fixed for another archetype.

That doesn't compare to the various balance issues bards are currently suffering (benefiting!?) from.

EDIT: And it's even arguable whether pinlegwhoring is overpowered really, though I cannot freakin' beat it for the life of me.

There is no other class that can perma-lock without a good deal of setup.

Bards win.

Perma-lock is only possible becuse of the stun bug, when stun is removed from blanknote... your gonna find something else to complain about.

Aeon by itself is so laughable with proper curing that it isn't even funny.

Not everyone has Forren's super system of doom...

What, you mean things like 3k damage or incredibly long writhe times?

While we're on the topic of 3k damage, remind me...how much damage were monks doing to you when you were complaining about how OP we are? Something like 2.5k or so?

Some skills in and of themselves are not too bad, but in combination they are bad. Transfix is an example - giving a long writhe time to a class with a strong burst offense and very fast afflictions is too much. None of us is trying to nerf your class away, just to make a win require a little bit of skill on your part instead of whoring the same macros.

From a balance perspective, we look at the best case scenario - proper curing is part of that.

With no other afflictions, aeon is gone in moments. If you keep quicksilver up, it's entirely trivial.