I'm sorry to tell you.. but transfix writhe wasn't lengthen'd or anything.. it's the same writhe time as dazzle was.. the gem from jewelry and anything else that did transfix. I don't think they are going to shorten the writhing time becuse you can't type in writhe very fast, it's not paticularly difficult.. I have no problem when I fight other bards.

Monks used to do over 4k in the first combination, which one shot me every single time.. that is why I was complaining.

See my statements about skills that were once okay but are bad in combinations. Dazzle was pretty nice before, but it's too much when combined with other bard skills.

Only titan/demigod monks with karma mantra did 4k to you. You alone can do 3k to me with no special abilities. How can you say the monks were OP but your damage is not?

The only possible way I can do 3k damage to you is if you are stupid enough to stand in octave.. or you simply don't know how to cure.

I didn't say transfix wasn't a whore along with our afflictions, but it is the only hindering we have to keep people from bashing on us.. we can't take hits that well as it is.

EDIT: Nejii wasn't a demigod/titan

The only possible way a monk could do 4k damage to you is if you are stupid enough to let your karma burn low. The point is that it is very easy for you to set up octave, or to afflict with manabarbs/egovice, which drastically raises your damage.

Transfix is your only hindering (once stun is gone), which is why I'm not suggesting that it should be removed. Right now, you hinder too well and it makes it incredibly easy for you to get kills. Hindering alone shouldn't mean you win - you should have to hinder and stack afflictions effectively in order to reach a kill condition.

And for the record, Nejii has been a titan since before he became a monk.

Uhm.. getting manabarbs/egovice to stick is nearly impossible 1 on 1 without octave, it is however easier in group battles. You do not have to STAND in octave if a bard casts it.. even I don't do that.. it's moronic.

It's laughable that you would even consider suggesting that transfix be removed.. let me take a moment to gather myself before I fall out of my chair.... phew okay.. moment is over.

You never had to stand and fight a monk when your karma was insanely low - though it was easier to catch people in group battles. I don't think it's all that difficult to get manabarbs/egovice, especially given your quick affliction output. What's more, you really don't need them when you can take half of my health with one minorsecond without manabarbs or egovice.

Erm...let me try again...

That is a good point. Right now, glamour bards have two good things going for them- a high affliction rate, and a high damage potential. However, the afflictions aren't especially sticky, if you can cure decent, you'll barely notice the afflictions, especially since we have very little, if any, control of what glamours gives you. So, that basically leaves the high damage potential. The high success of glamour bards is mostly from the so-so curing that the vast majority of the players have.

Alternatively, tarot bards have aeon, and can stick afflictions better- but the afflictions they can do and the rate they can give them are far more limited then glamours, and then you have problems with the aeon itself staying around long enough to have much impact, once again just leaving you with the damage.

Without high damage and stun, bards are going to have a rough time getting kills 1v1.

Really, the only thing I've seen about bards that I find truly difficult to deal with is the egovice + manabarbs + double mana loss song + ego/mana damaging song. The amount of health/mana/ego damage from that seems excessive, and I think a simple and fair fix to it would be to ignore the double mana loss song from that attack. Minorsecond doesn't seem to be impossible to deal with, and I barely have any lessons in magic. Enough people can deal with my damage, celestode, crusadercanto, and my champ arty together that I really don't think minorsecond damage for your average bard is a big issue.

Bards seem to make things more difficult for themselves than they have to - I don't think it is so much that people can deal with bard damage, it's that there aren't many bards that just whore damage. From all the logs I've seen of bard fights, it looks like the vast majority of the time you could just whore minorsecond and quickly outpace the target's curing within a minute or less. Bard guilds were all given different flavours, they should be able to use them since it is part of their design - sleepiness, bleeding, hunger, and whatever the cantor specialty is should all be buffed, and cheap tactics like insane damage and constant stun should be nerfed instead.

You were considering it, that is what I was taking a stab at... it's kinda sad really.. let's remove puching and kicking and make you only able to use weapons so I won't need transfix? hmm?




The stun makes it easier yes, but I don't need it to kill someone.

The double mana loss power is unique to the Harbingers only, nobody else should have a problem with that, as for the ego/mana damaging power there is only an ego one and it's on a 10 second timer and doesn't do barely anything so I don't use it.

My bleeding power has nerfed becuse people thought it did too much, If you just want something more to complain about.. be my guest.

My Minorsecond is terrible even to someone with inept magic.. I honestly have no idea what your talking about.

I'm talking about the active mana/ego damage song, forget what its called. The one that lets you do 1400 mana damage, 700 ego damage, and 2100 health damage There's nothing wrong with the double mana song itself, just that you can do super-mindblasts with it.

Minorsixth? It only does that much becuse of the double mana loss power.. but that is the entire point of the power in the first place... though I don't remember it doing the same damage a couple months ago..

I'd think that song would be for groups with Shadowdancers.. double succumb loss.

Acually, it's for that too.

It may not be the power... the base damage without any effects is still relativly high, maybe kick back the damage from the skill itself instead of nerfing the power? I unno

lol keep up you griefer. It does roughly (give or take 50 up and down for mana and ego respectively) 1000 mana/ego drain. So combined with double mana drain that's 3k damage. (the previous hints that it might be slightly influenced based on percentages but I've heard others getting hit by 3k so it can't be that big) Also the ego drain song did over 600 drain every 5 seconds, not 10. Percentage wise it was 15% of my ego. So to see whether it's a flat drain or a percentage drain it'll have to be tested against other people. Either way, just because it hasn't been used by anyone doesn't mean it can't be nor that it shouldn't be toned down.

"Nor does tiredness"
-cough- dreamweavers base everything on sleep right?

Yes, Krin, that's right.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore, we'll just have to agree to disagree. The majority of the people I've heard from all agree that bard damage at the very least needs to be nerfed, the transfix time is still up in the air for a consensus. You can argue endlessly that your skills are all fine; there's someone who does from every OP class.



I could be wrong, but isn't the damage of both minorsixth and minorsecond lessoned by magic defense? MDs have some of the best magic defense in the game, and you also have trans magic. If you are still taking 3k, imagine what it would be for people without all those defenses.

Of course, it could be possible that minorsixth is not affected by magic defense...in which case, I would still argue that it should be reduced, but otherwise this can be ignored.

MinorSixth was originally 700 damage to mana and ego.

Now, it seems to be more %-based. Considering various logs, where it drained 1000-ish mana and 800-ish ego.

Need2nerf Harbinger song.

And maybe Succumb.

(Okay, was joking on that last one.)