Synl is correct, where is used to be a flat 700 per. It is not a magic attack so isn't affected by any sort of stat or skill levels. While it might be more percentage based, it's a fairly high percentage since I'm not the only one getting hit by 3k attacks. Non demi's are too. I suppose the best test of this would be with a changeling. Someone like Kaervas or anyone who could change to igasho/dwarf and such could get a better test. In any case, 3000 is still 50% for mugwumps or intelligence/charisma primary classes. Which, after all the DMP changes I'm pretty sure the idea was to remove 1 shot kills or 2 shot kills.

Holy , 50% for an int-heavy race?

I'm kephera and don't even have 4k health at lvl 80. I really need to get to demigod!

If you get manabarbs/egovice on me then minorsixth twice in a row, I am dead - even if I sip, read scroll, and eat sparkleberry. Even just minorsecond can do around 1/3 of my health or so in an attack. If you just do that 5-7 times or so and I don't run away, I will probably die. That's ignoring room/song effects and whatever else you may do in that time. Granted, Krellan's moonburst would do the same thing, but then he is a demigod and not a normal MD on equal-footing.

To be fair, if a Nihilist sticks sensitivity and Omen on you, you're going to die fairly quickly.

If a warrior sticks (insert any one of a number of proning afflictions) on you, you're going to die fairly quickly.

If a Moondancer sticks aeon and anorexia on you, you're going to die fairly quickly.

Etc, etc.

Actually, nihilists will still have to throw in something else (aeon, etc) in order to kill someone with damage. Sensitivity and omen enough don't give them enough oomph to kill me as easily as bards.

The only warrior skill I can think of which is as bad is pinleg, but then it doesn't increase the damage, just decreases the curing. It's only a problem when they get it on the first hit or something, otherwise it's usually preventable.

Moondancers also need more than aeon and anorexia; their damage is only good against classes with no magic defense (may have changed now since the DMP changes, I haven't fought any since then). In most cases, they have to stick sleeplock (using aeon/anorexia/whatever else to get there), then drain mana to half, and even then you can still get away unless they've set up icewalls.

I agree that all of those things are dangerous, and bards who get those afflictions on you should be dangerous too. Just not as dangerous as they are now.

Note the 'sticks' part. As in, if you don't cure through it. As in, if you don't cure through the two afflictions.

Only Harbingers can manage 3000 damage on a MinorSixth at the moment. MinorSixth should just be changed to draining 700 mana/ego again. It'll still be 2100 damage from Harbingers, but if the fighter manages to keep two afflictions stuck on you...that sounds fair.

NO.

Anyways.

DissonantChord is a majorly upgraded thornlash--if you ever want to trade, I'm game.

Bard damage, especially Cantor and Harbinger damage, is over the top. 'Specially Cantor. CrusaderCanto needs the nerfstick like nobody's business. It's not just a 2k-3k attack, it's the fastest damage attack in the game.

(And, as a complete sidenote, guardian damage kills are perfectly feasible without sensitivity and omen and aeon. Sensitivity, quickening, and 20 int got the job done even when it was 100% magic as long as you weren't dealing with a Moondancer.)

Agreed, classes being based off of things like hunger/tiredness is totally retarded.

I wrote a largish essay about Spiritsinger tiredness actually...depending on how envoys go I might post it here.

Since Daedalion was complaining about his damage earlier, here's a brief sample. Inept magic, no proofings, for a flat read. All Magnagoran bards.

3280h, 3472m, 3630e, 10p, 16933en, 19640w elrxkb-

Drak plays a wooden lute and directs the disharmonic notes towards you.
The reverberating sound echoes through your head, pounding you with excruciating
pain.
2299h, 3472m, 3630e, 10p, 16953en, 19640w elrxkb-

Drak is adept, 7% instrument level, no Necroscream, only Music.

3852h, 3472m, 3630e, 10p, 16793en, 19640w elrxkb-

Ananat plays a glass violin and directs the disharmonic notes towards you.
The reverberating sound echoes through your head, pounding you with excruciating
pain.
2598h, 3472m, 3630e, 10p, 16793en, 19640w elrxkb-

Ananat is a transcendent Maestro.


3852h, 3937m, 3630e, 10p, 17420en, 19640w elrxkb-

Arawaen plays an eerie bloodstone lyre and directs the disharmonic notes towards
you.
The reverberating sound echoes through your head, pounding you with excruciating
pain.
2214h, 3937m, 3630e, 10p, 17420en, 19640w elrxkb-

Also transcendent and a Maestro, but after buffing through a song in Necroscream.

Oh, I completely agree with that. They have a valid point, though, that if we take away all of their lame tactics, they have no kill conditions left. Nerf insane damage, insanely long writhe times, and repeated stun, and what are they left with?

glamours?

its not really the high damage i have a problem with its that the high damage can be stacked with tons of passive afflicts that dont even take a second to do while they hit with massive damage.

Nightfade hits off of a 10 second timer, if thats what your talking about



Minorsixth is not affected by magic defense.

I agree minorsecond does need nerfed abit, and remove the stun from blanknote, I have no problem with that.

You will have to live with writhing from transfix, shortening the writhe time is just stupid and overly excessive, as far as I know your the only one that wants to do it.

Everyone seems to agree that transfix writhe time is too long - you yourself have admitted that you use it as your basic strategy. If you can get your second transfix, you can win. Otherwise you have to run and try again. Most people are just more patient than I am. They are saying instead that we should nerf minorsecond and remove stun and then wait and see how it goes before reducing writhe time. I personally think the writhe time is still too long and should also be reduced, but I think that other people are right that it's more fair to try it without stun and massive minorsecond damage, then see what still needs to be changed from there instead of making several big changes all at once.

For inept magic and no proofing... thats really not bad at all. Rough on Yrael because 3852 is a pretty pitiful max health, but a lot of people should be able to deal with it more then they let on, especially if they learn magic.

With the exception of the crazy minorsixth damage with the double mana song, and maybe crusader canto (though it really only adds extra oomph on the first hit, after that, each hit might have one charge, adding 200 fire damage which can be resisted), bard damage really isn't that bad unless you don't bother to get magic resistances, especially considering there aren't many ways a bard has to slow your curing down if you have decent triggers.

just you know AEON

Aeon is in tarot, which is far inferior to glamours for fighting, so most bards have glamours. Tarot bards will also have a very difficult time keeping you in aeon, so it would all be pretty negligible, and they would have very low afflicting power. Other classes that use tarot have other ways of afflicting outside of tarot to supplement what tarot can do, but bards can only give the four music afflictions, a chance of broken limbs, and whatever passive effects their songs can give, most of which is very unlikely to prevent you from curing aeon in 2-3 seconds (though it is possible, I'll admit, but it would be pure luck).

Cantors have a 3p song that does aeon, but it would cost at least 6p to aeon a prepared person. On top of that, its a mid-stanza song, so in order to use it, I'd have to not use any upper stanza songs (justchorale, recessional, eversea, and requiem- not that anyone uses the bard instas anyway). If I were to go past it to the upper level songs, or not have a song prepared, I'd have to play 3-5 lines of my song mid-combat in order to get back to being able to use the aeon ability. To my knowledge, none of the 3p songs the other guilds have give aeon, though I could be wrong.

So no, aeon is not especially useful (or even possible in some cases) for bards.

Given that bards attack more quickly than any other magical class, that is quite a bit of damage. Also, 3852 is not all that low for max health. I only have 3900 at level 80, which should be enough to survive just straight damage with no afflictions.

I wish I'd saved that one where you one shotted me from 3600.

With 6k hp, Acrune was doing 3.3k to me only if I had no defs or proofings up and the Crusader Canto was fully charged.

You sure you weren't reckless?

How many times have I said this? I notice unexplained changes in my prompt and diagnose, unless it's incredibly spammy - fighting one bard isn't incredibly spammy. Not to mention my max health is 3700 when I don't have a con-fortuna.