that .5 second delay is a very interesting idea. Because it might still work because even though you'll have to use power to doublewhammy hexes or whammy a few. Succumb being passive and better than lash in every which way, might just be enough to make up for it. In theory anyways. I personally would always take choke over active aeon. And the shadowdancers got a nice barghest nerf where it's targeted now instead of roomwide. Which finally happened and is nice change. timing barghests to attack was mean.

I'm still of the belief that it's too hard to do things at 1s... then perhaps everything that slows movement down, including Aeon, should be reduced to 0.5s, as I was the last time this came up. I'm fine with just reducing it all across the board to be equivalent to sap.

It's really not a comparable situation.

Aeon is a highly undesirable state. It has a preventative def, a simple cure, and even if you fail to cure it, it cures itself fairly quickly. Without good setup, aeon will be gone before the caster gets eq back.

Sap is a highly undesirable state. It has a mildly difficult cure. Without good setup, sap will be gone before the caster gets eq back. It costs 5p, has elevation requirements, and has half the time loss of aeon to compensate.

Choke is a state forced on multiple people, which must be made desirable, or at least tolerable, or a choked room must be conceded to the Shadowdancer, even though it mirrors other highly undesirable states. It has no cure, other than running away, which both the caster and the opponents may do freely. It has no preventative measures. It lasts longer than it needs to. No amount of improper setup will cause choke to be gone before the caster gets eq back. No amount of player skill can compensate for the punishment taken by warriors.

Aeon is a highly undesirable state. It has a preventative def, a simple cure, and even if you fail to cure it, it cures itself fairly quickly. Without good setup, aeon will be gone before the caster gets eq back.

Sap is a highly undesirable state. It has a mildly difficult cure. Without good setup, sap will be gone before the caster gets eq back. It costs 5p, has elevation requirements, and has half the time loss of aeon to compensate.
It seems that right there gives a good reason for why aeon should be equivalent to sap in slowdown time.

Again, if you want to make it a standard-- just set it all to 0.5s. Done.

Except there's over a year of combat history to objectively explain that they're not the same. You've been around long enough to know you're exaggerating the issue.

They're not the same, but when it comes down to 1v1 combat-- they are used in exactly the same way. To try to lock your opponent so that you can beat them down while they can't cure.

And even though they were used in exactly the same way, one was obviously more effective than the other. With a full second delay, there were people who could cleanse out of sap. Does that mean sap should be returned to a full second delay? Does the fact that a small minority of skilled fighters with a fair number of passive afflictions can fight effectively in choke mean that choke is fine as it is?

I believe that I am advocating setting them all at half a second, not at a full second-- which would satisfy both of your concerns listed there.

If MinorSecond does too much damage, should we nerf all magic damage? You can't stick aeon with a half second delay.

What if choke was blocked by shield, at least?

That's sort of an interesting thought, if you ask me. You use the shield to temporarily ward off the shadows, allowing you to cure and such, but if you try to move out of the shield again the shadows will take you. On a purely common sense level, it makes sense. The shields are described as 'circles of light' and things like that. But the first problem I can see is that one of the main arguments against choke is that warriors and other solely active offenses are gimped in it, and this would do nothing to deal with that issue. All it does is make choke less effective at locking people with afflictions. Which I think is a good thing, but most people will be looking for a more complete solution so this will probably be cast aside.

Also, get rid of pixies in choke! This will solve all the problems as far as I'm concerned.

By the sounds of it, there's not much chance of a complete solution getting through the envoy process. The 1 command per 1/2 second change instead of 1 command per 1 second is an improvement, but I don't really see that as much of a fix. Not anymore than the shield suggestion though, I suppose.

We'll probably end up with the temporary bandage solution that has been suggested before - the skill is clearly overpowered and in need of fixing, I think everyone is agreed on that, but instead it will just be made unuseable in places of key importance to nation raiding. Use it unfairly everywhere else, no problem.

How are aeon and sap getting dragged into this? If you compare choke and aeon/sap, you are totally unfamiliar with how they all work.

For group combat, yes.

For 1v1? Not so much. 1v1, choke is the Shadowdancer's form of aeon. They are being discussed together for that reason, as well as the fact that they are all the slow-movement skills, as well as sap already being half a second (as the proposal for choke here is).

Right, but what Xavius has been saying is that it's impossible to stick aeon with a .5 second delay. It is not impossible with choke because there is no cure besides walking away. And staying out of the room is not made any easier or hard with a .5 second delay. It's a bit of a nerf to the 1v1 aspect, but as I said before. succumb being passive and absurdly good might be enough to compensate. Of course, I'm of the opinion that choke is okay, just not at supermobs. Yes, lash is sometimes better than succumb. But -only- ever at trans magic. Anything less than trans magic gives succumb a better mana drain percentage over lash. Plus the whole being a passive affliction.

I just fought in a Blacktalon demesne while choked while they just carved through a much larger group of competent fighters. How does Glom ever lose? Ever?

Against Mags, we don't. Geomancers are serious pansies when it comes to maintaining a demesne against an assault. Who needs choke?

But why's there action while I'm systemless and none when I'm prepared?

Well, you could break the demesne, not sit in choke...

Honestly, I would prefer if I could say 'kill the caster', but that got shot down...by the admins.

AFAIK, Choke dying with the caster can be coded. The downside is that shadows would need to disappear when the caster died, meaning Brumetower/Bonds would need to be recast, as well.

Annoying, but...it's a nice balance.

EDIT: 'Competent fighter' doesn't mean much when in Choke, unless the fighter has learnt to fight inside Choke.

1) Enemy demesne.
2) Use your own area passives-- demesne, colour maelstrom, ecto, the little bug things (those would actually be pretty nasty in Choke).

Choke is a two-edged sword, and if you think about it you can use it against the caster.