A bit confused as to how Phoenix works at the moment. Apparently if someone has lich, they lose no essence when they die? Does anyone know if this is the same with transmigration? I know that vitae will not fire for a demigod. And of course you can't be ressed/sacrificed for in order to lose less essence. What about the dark nest egg? Does that prevent essence loss?

This seems to give a pretty big advantage to liching (basically an entire city at this point) and possibly transmigrating demigods. I know at one point essence was lost anytime any demigod died, regardless of skills. I'm not sure if it is a bug that it is not longer this way or what?

Right now it would be impossible for any Magnagoran demigod to lose it unless they purposefully tried. Possibly also impossible for anyone with transmigration or the dark nest egg either. Seems a bit unfair if there really is much interest at all in people having to make some amount of effort to keep demigod.

So I suppose the question is twofold, what skills do people have access to in order to stop essence loss as a demigod and should this be the case? We already know that lich stops essence loss and it is available to all of Magnagora. If dark nest stops it as well, that is another entire org that can stop essence loss. And then of course transmigration. Hopefully someone can test those latter two.

It would seem this should not be the case and goes against the intent of Phoenix. If certain orgs/classes can avoid the built in penalty for demigod it unevens the playing field.

It would be absolutely unfair if one group of players were able to avoid essence loss completely from a death. All demigods should lose essence when they die, period. No ability should negate that loss. I don't see why it's a bad thing either. IMO, the effort to maintain demigod status encourages them to build essence and remain active in the game.

This is one of those things people always seem to think the wrong thing about, lich doesn't, and never has stopped demigod essence loss upon death. Neither do any of the rezz skills out there.



There's no effort involved really, a death off-prime is about 20 astral creatures worth of essence, prime is about 45.

hehe, ok gals. This is what I learned about it, now if Kaervas or Thoros sees it they should be able to tell you exactly what happens, but phoenix fires before lich, from what I heard. If you are not a lich when you get demigod, you are pretty screwed. Now this is what I remember, but I hope Kaervas sees this, since he told me about it a long time ago. He can explain it better. But I don't think it is an advantage at all since phoenix always fired first.

It may have changed, but I am not sure.

edit- sweet I see the big K reading this thread, so hope he gives ya the right answer.

I believe transmigration, lich, darkseed, etc. all work the same for demigods. We've been discussing this a bit in the Haven. These defenses would be worthless if they did nothing for the demigod. I'm considering they halve the essence loss of phoenix as a compromise.

I don't think essence loss needs to be halved by these skills, it's enough of a joke as it is regularly. Demigods can become liches, they will lich rather than phoenix (so they can become undead and get the lich stat bonuses etc), but they still lose the same amount of essence for it.

Oh ok so lich does hit before phoenix now? Ahh, I coulda swore it didn't, but I guess that is cool.

Demigods who use transmigrate or lich etc will go through the same process that non-demis go through when the skill is used (transmigration returning to animal for example), they just lose essence as if they'd phoenixed. It's been like that as far as I can remember.

That seems fair actually. You still lose the exp when you die and then subsequently Lich. So if they have the Lich skill and die, they lose the essence and Lich. Then if they die again, THEN Pheonix kicks in.

Edit: I don't think they should lose the full essence for Liching. Maybe 1/2 for the Lich, then the regular amount after that?

You're probably right in that it's a joke, with the more recent changes to essence loss as a demi. So just that I'm clear, when you die and lich, currently, are they losing essence or no? Thoros says he didn't lose essence on lich.

Edit: Oops, I think you answered that in a previous post.

Thoros must have been misreading his essence count or something, lich amongst other rezz skills has never stopped essence loss. I've tested it with transmigrate and the darknest among other things and have lost essence every single time.

Actually Kaervas, the point is that is what USED to happen but it doesn't anymore. It was confirmed yesterday I believe. No essence loss anymore. At least with lich. Someone could test with the other two examples. I think the change happened after the recent phoenix changes.

I agree that removing any benefit from the skill at all would be unfair in the sense that someone loses the use of skills that are pretty high up. At the same time with the existence of constructs...it just feels unbalanced. You don't have to trans anything to get lich or dark nest. Entire orgs have it!

I don't know the answer really. Lich at least has some other benefits besides the death one, though that is the primary benefit.

Kaervas is right in that right now, the loss for demigdos dying is a joke. There was no risk of me losing it immediately after I got it! I recently ran around raiding solo to test my new system and died 4 or 5 times and it didn't even phase me. An hour's worth of bashing. Hopefully it was good xp for the people who killed me at least.

So if Phoenix is going to remain as little essence loss as it is currently, there doesn't seem much reason to bother halving it for these other skills (assuming they actually cost any essence). But in general terms, it seems like it should be halved if it is either in home territory, or in non-enemy territory. Otherwise it gives people with these skills a greater advantage and less risk in terms of raiding.

It was confirmed by who? So far I've only heard Thoros mentioned and he hasn't been a lich for ages.

Phoenix was already nerfed to the level where maintaining Demigod is trivial. 100k for off plane deaths means you spend fifteen minutes getting it back.

Demigods should not be immune to essence loss, ever. I think it would even be unfair to reduce the already nerfed phoenix costs further.

The entire idea that Demigods have been dying for free greatly annoys me - the idea that this was known annoys me even more. When I first got Demigod, I was endlessly hunted by large groups. I lost essence. I gained it back. It was fine. I made it a point to return the favor if any of them thought of daring to get Demigod. Now I find out that these efforts are in vain, for they in fact lose nothing, while the rest of us lose the full amount detailed in HELP DEMIGOD.

Nothing should lower a Demigod's death other than plane as detailed in HELP DEMIGOD.

I think I'm getting a little confused... Do things like Lich currently kick in for Demis? Or does it go straight to Pheonix? Or can a Demi Lich first then go to Pheonix if they die after Lich?

I thought he was lying at the time. It was confirmed by Ceren, according to another person.

Phoenix was changed a while ago to where it had a .5 second delay or so. I thought it was harmless. It probably went along with it. I'm rather irked that this change was never announced. I just assumed Thoros had been lying, as he was known to do with essence loss matters.

Yes, lich kicks in for demis according to the demis who currently have or had lich recently. I can't say regarding transmigrate or dark nest but I'm guessing from Estarra's post those kick in too. Vitae does not kick in.

Thoros stated that he was at 13k essence once, died, lich kicked in, and he didn't lose demi. Now, I have no idea if he was telling the truth or not but it was a recent statement.

Just ask Est/Roark to check the code again, or test on a testserver, no need to make a big, angry thread about it.

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