I'm not really sure how either of my stated reasons are irrational, either way my personal stance on an essence cap is clear. You think Demigods deserve a break from bashing yet think it should be easier to lose Demigod which forces people to bash to get it back again, you're contradicting yourself there.

Sounds to me (the most uninformed outside party - Noola will prolly make Demigod when Lusternia is celebrating it's 50th anniversary! ) like a cap like that would be kind of like how you can only have so much power at a time and so you have to strategize on how it's used. So, you'd have to strategize on how you used essence and decide if doing certain things were worth getting close to running out before you could build it back up and all.

Sounds like it'd make things more interesting to me.

I guess I've been out of the loop for a while, was under the impression trueheal gave 60 second barrier still. Regardless, the reason I brought it up is because it's your nexus power, and you're sitting here claiming a skill you've never had or experienced, our nexus power, needs to be weakened so you can cause harm to its people. I've had both, and I can say if given the choice would choose trueheal, even with its 7 second barrier, over lich any day.

That said, people do like to bash and see their essence go up, for some (Exeryte) it's probably the only reason they even bash. I personally bash for essence to offer and because I like the flashy criticals. I'm not sure there's going to be a way to fix this and have everyone be happy. But Forren, you are married to Aesyra, you probably realize just how much essence she has. Aesyra, Kaervas, Exeryte all are probably approaching the 40 mils if not more I bet. That's just a guess, but seriously, how will they EVER lose Demi? How will -I- ever lose Demi, and I only have like 9 or 10mil these days. I wont, and they wont. Not unless you're actively trying to lose it. It's supposed to be hard to retain, but that's a joke. I know from the Admin posts in this thread they must realize that too, so that was just an idea on my part. Even if 500k was reinstituted it would be hard to lose, which is why I said a cap would be nice. Makes everyone equal, low, and makes losing it possible.

Maybe convert excess essence into a seperate type of essence that can be used for demi-powers or something, since I'm sure later on they will have more powers. Back in the day, there was two seperate types of essence slots, maybe utilize both. You fill up the one that's for your phoenix, and if that is maxed out the rest trickels into a seperate essence account. That sounds good to me and makes it equal on all fronts.

I agree with Kaervas.

Even if Kaervas has 50 million essence, if I hunt him enough, and his construct wasn't giving him essence loss immunity, he could still eventually be brought down to Titan. I'd just have to dedicate my life to it. It's possible.

What nexus power? I've never had trueheal dude. Always been an Aquamancer.

I've gone down to 700k from 8 million before, by the way.

I agree with this idea also.



Aha, but it would alleviate the problem of nodes being drained alot more, since if you end up with a cap, then there would be no reason for demigods to drain the hell outta astral nodes every day. This would give people who aren't demi, the chance to bash nodes that are not at motes or lower.


The only other problem with it would be the exp ranking. Which I am guessing may be part of why Kaervas may not like it. He bashes his ass off to try and get to number 1 ranked I think. So, if you figure out another way to do the exp rankings, maybe he would and other people would be more receptive? -shrug-

2.5mil - 5mil cap seems good, it makes it still pretty damn impossible to lose demi. And I truly think all demi's should risk themselves somewhat, BUT I do not agree with if you lose demi you are tossed so far back into level 99. So if they would make changes like this, and possibly making essence loss from deaths mean anything, then they would need to make it so you lose demi, you are at titan and 99% or what is normal for others.


As far as lich is concerned, I agree that why should someone who bashed his ass off, not have the same benifits of lich as someone of a lower level? It is how lich works. I do think that within the timeframe allowed with TH that it could be used as a better way to escape than lich sometimes. But I still think that giving demigods a disadvantage for being a demigod is defeating the purpose. No level 10 person should end up with the same skill as a demi and have it work better for them than it does for the demigod.

I do like the cap thing, again I think something would be needed to maintain the who is top ranked exp though, and it may possibly end up being easier for people to swallow it then.

Forren you know that is very improbable, not impossible but improbable. You have even said before that no one could make you lose demigod, that you had more than enough essence to never lose it. So, yes if you jumped Kaervas and won 100-200 times, and Kaervas never ever bashed mobs, which would give him anywhere from 800-1800 essence per mob, then yea it is possible, but that would never happen.

I couldn't care less about the exp rankings to be honest. I just don't want to see us getting shafted with a completely unnecessary cap with the intent that all demigods should be able to lose it fairly easily. This whole thread appeared because a few skills are stopping essence loss, which is easily fixed, now it seems to be about "Zomg it's too easy to keep demigod nerf them all".

Just as a note: I was against the recent essence loss changes where it was changed from 500k on prime to 250k max and 100k or whatever it is off prime now. If anything that's what needs to be changed, not some essence cap.

Trivial reason to do it, and it was mostly Titans doing that anyway.


Trivial reason not to do it.


Trust me, 2.5million is very very losable as long as the person doesn't have a skill that prevents essence loss.


The reason is simple - a Demigod should not be immune to essence loss. RP wise, a Demigod is not a normal person. Being a Demigod is a struggle to maintain. Any death should pain their essence. Any death. Right now, half of the Basin is immune to essence loss while the other half takes essence loss as was designed.

I would suggest that phoenix costs be raised again, back to 500-250-100.

Ahh ok, I thought you did all that bashing (when I asked you about it one day) cuz ya were down right determined to beat someone in rankings. my bad, it was me assuming again .

By the by, that is a very reasonable response. Thank you for your honesty.

But even now. Kaervas' essence grows. We must stop him. Before it is too late.

Why don't you say anything USEFUL YOU STUPID BUSH

Demigods should always have risk associated with death, but no other Magnagorans/ecologists should? You're really not making much sense on that point - either lich/transmigrate should stop experience for everyone, or it should stop experience for nobody. Saying that it should cost for demigods and should not for anybody else is pretty nonsensical

You still seem to be assuming that lich is a death, while it has been explained continually (I can link you to the threads, if you'd like) that lich is not death. This is why people who lich can be killed without any danger all over prime; it has been the cause of many complaints. Over and over it is explained that lich is not an actual death, it is just a second-chance ability that gives you an opportunity to escape (which can be blocked).

How is that different from trueheal again?

How many people it applies to doesn't really matter - if the skill needs to be fixed, it needs to be fixed. You seem to be using strawman tactics here when what you are talking about is a nerf to lich. You are basically saying that if a demigod dies with lich, they should lose experience. The natural conclusion is that everyone should lose experience when they lich - there is no logical reason to single-out demigods. That is just resurrecting the age-old debate about how trueheal and lich both need to be nerfed. I am demonstrating that by dragging trueheal back into the argument again, because it is used for the exact same purpose, and has the exact same effect.

Derian, what you are doing here is taking the argument and extending it to absurd proportions that no one is suggesting. Being a demigod is vastly different from levels 1-98 including, but not limited to, greatly increased stats and many new active abilities. No other level in the game adds so much utility to the player, even roleplay-wise, demigod is meant to be something that is fleeting and needs maintenance to sustain. This is certainly not a scalpel approach to nerf lich. If anything, by allowing the current state to exist, demigod nerfs sacrifice, resurrect, immolate, and resurgeum as these abilities normally assist in lowering exp loss but do absolutely nothing for a demigod. What is being suggested is an a sense of balance between orgs and demigods. By only having conglutination work, there was balance...since everyone has access to the skill. By allowing lich, transmigrate, and dark rebirth escape death, there is no longer any balance. Keep in mind that lich also gives +stats, +regen, and a room-wide attack, dark rebirth also will give retributive-type abilities, and transmigrate will take a person entirely out of harm's way. There are still tangible and reasonable benefits to these skills whether essence is lost or not.

You are somewhat right - I am taking this argument to absurd proportions, but there are people who would agree with them. It is a logical way to handle an argument, though - if you can take someone's point and demonstrate that the logical conclusion is absurd, it is a good sign that the best point was equally absurd.

While I appreciate your point, I believe that either I am overly critical or you are overly naive about the intentions here. All of the demigods have admitted that it is extremely difficult to lose demigod and the loss of a little bit of essence from death means nothing. They are basically saying "it doesn't matter because nobody will ever lose demigod, but they should have to deal with this nonexistent risk as much as I do."

Back to the point, people seem to be continually making the mistake of lumping lich in with things like resurrect/immolate/resurgem/etc., when it is actually a completely different thing. Demigods basically have constant conglutinate regardless of where they are - giving them an extra reduce-experience skill wouldn't mean much, they already don't have to deal with things like praying and increased loss associated with it. Things like lich/trueheal are not skills to make you lose less experience when you die, they are skills which allow you to avoid death altogether and possibly escape. They are parallels of each other, not sacrifice/lich or any of those other parallels. The big problem is that lich is available to an entire organization while trueheal is not, but I believe that is okay due to the nature of the skills. A lot of people disagree with that, but this isn't really the place to argue that.

@Kharvik - Capping essence seems like a good idea, but unfair to demigods, so I don't like it. And have you ever lost demigod? Just wondering.

@Derian - Trueheal shouldn't even be an issue at this point. How many times will it be nerfed before everyone stops using it as justification for why Sacrament users are overpowered or even, invincible? Trueheal isn't terrible, but it isn't everything. I only use it when I need to get away from groups and most times, I find I don't have the power to use it.

Stop overlooking the fact that all of Magnagora has lich now. The admin approved a construct giving an entire organization a transcendent ability. Give all of Celest trueheal and we'll see how demigods may abuse this to avoid ever losing essence. Give all of SW transmigrate. I'd be amused to see younger players evoking trueheal for kicks or to try and get away from the dreaded newbie killers!

What some of us are asking for here is to make it so demigods across the board share the same experiences and gains. I know it's difficult and I realize that it might be a tad unfair to instate a change that may render several trans abilities useless, but I doubt they'd suffer much. I think most people in game would enjoy being a demigod, if they had the time and determination to get there. The benefits would outweigh any losses. (IMO)

Whether or not it is 'likely' a demigod that liches will die twice is a silly comment to make. I've witnessed numerous players escaping after lich. I've seen people die through trueheal's very short barrier and if you're off plane raiding, without a cubix, it can be risky anyhow. Isn't that the chance you take when you engage in combat. Don't want to lose? Don't raid or be careful. There has to be consequences for one's actions, which is why any ability that negates xp/essence loss encourages griefing, in a sense. It was poor in design. Lich/Transmigrate/D-Rebirth. Well actually, they should have had more restrictions and it wouldn't be a problem now. I like Aesyra's idea. Make it so you can only escape 'true-death' once or twice per game day or even a real day. Change trueheal to the same, but include a few extra perks for Paladins! STAT GAINS, mhm.

I've found that losing experience is a huge deterrent for most, in pvp and bashing. I've been frustrated by losses and so have many others. Most do not appreciate dying and losing even a %, which means more hours of mindless grinding to make it up. Most players I've talked to absolutely DESPISE sacrificing for others, myself included, because of the xp/essence/power/defs lost. Oh and the fact that using it renders conglutinate useless. Hey, isn't that a trans ability?

It's difficult to lose if you know how to avoid people - some people don't know how to do that. I had to learn the hard way, through trial and error.

Thoros died not too long ago with 12k essence. He liched. If lich did not block essence loss, he would have become a Titan. The same would have been true if he used any other of the skills mentioned previously in this thread. I don't need to list them all again.

You're 110% wrong about the conglutinate - any death to a Demigod is worse than the equivalent death to a non-Demigod. Trueheal is a lot harder to use than lich as well - it requires the active act of using 10p, which can be blocked. The prismatic barrier also only lasts a few seconds. If you're being ganked by a group, lich will save you more often than trueheal will. You can also be killed through trueheal (I've done it to people). Demigods have Divine Fire also, which is 10x better than trueheal. The parallels, Sacrifice and Resurrection, are worthless to Demigods.

Lich <<<<< Transmigration though for Demis. At least there's a remote chance the lich can lose essence.

To sum up my view on this:

1. No skills should have any bearing on essence loss other than plane location as specified in HELP DEMIGOD
2. I am perfectly fine with letting Demigods lich and be given the other bonuses (contagion, reduced power costs, +2/+2 stats, very good bonuses) etc and having them phoenix normally, letting lich be stripped on death. Demigods go above and beyond normal mortal death.
3. Essence cost on death could be raised again.

While I appreciate all of the ponits you make here, and might even agree with them, none of them relate to the original point. You want to nerf lich for demigods because you don't get it as well, or because it is organization-wide, or some similar reason. In reality, you should be talking about whether lich should or should not have an experience loss associated with it. If it is yes, then we have to talk about whether trueheal should also have an experience loss. If it is no, then we should give up on this thread and start talking about the other issues you mentioned. If it is 'only for demigods' then we need to talk about what it is that makes lich so much different for demigods than for other mortals (a point which I have not yet heard explained well).



You could easily replace your sentence by saying almost died not too long ago with 12k essence. He truehealed. If did not block essence loss, he would have become a Titan.

Back to my original point again - lich is not a resurrection skill. It is a avoidance skill, just like trueheal. You might argue about whether or not they are equal, or whether one is more powerful or easier to use. That doesn't change the fact - lich is designed to be a death avoidance skill, exactly like trueheal. If trueheal does not require experience/essence, it follows that lich should not as well.