@Kharvik - Capping essence seems like a good idea, but unfair to demigods, so I don't like it. And have you ever lost demigod? Just wondering.

@Derian - Trueheal shouldn't even be an issue at this point. How many times will it be nerfed before everyone stops using it as justification for why Sacrament users are overpowered or even, invincible? Trueheal isn't terrible, but it isn't everything. I only use it when I need to get away from groups and most times, I find I don't have the power to use it.

Stop overlooking the fact that all of Magnagora has lich now. The admin approved a construct giving an entire organization a transcendent ability. Give all of Celest trueheal and we'll see how demigods may abuse this to avoid ever losing essence. Give all of SW transmigrate. I'd be amused to see younger players evoking trueheal for kicks or to try and get away from the dreaded newbie killers!

What some of us are asking for here is to make it so demigods across the board share the same experiences and gains. I know it's difficult and I realize that it might be a tad unfair to instate a change that may render several trans abilities useless, but I doubt they'd suffer much. I think most people in game would enjoy being a demigod, if they had the time and determination to get there. The benefits would outweigh any losses. (IMO)

Whether or not it is 'likely' a demigod that liches will die twice is a silly comment to make. I've witnessed numerous players escaping after lich. I've seen people die through trueheal's very short barrier and if you're off plane raiding, without a cubix, it can be risky anyhow. Isn't that the chance you take when you engage in combat. Don't want to lose? Don't raid or be careful. There has to be consequences for one's actions, which is why any ability that negates xp/essence loss encourages griefing, in a sense. It was poor in design. Lich/Transmigrate/D-Rebirth. Well actually, they should have had more restrictions and it wouldn't be a problem now. I like Aesyra's idea. Make it so you can only escape 'true-death' once or twice per game day or even a real day. Change trueheal to the same, but include a few extra perks for Paladins! STAT GAINS, mhm.

I've found that losing experience is a huge deterrent for most, in pvp and bashing. I've been frustrated by losses and so have many others. Most do not appreciate dying and losing even a %, which means more hours of mindless grinding to make it up. Most players I've talked to absolutely DESPISE sacrificing for others, myself included, because of the xp/essence/power/defs lost. Oh and the fact that using it renders conglutinate useless. Hey, isn't that a trans ability?

Mitbulls....trueheal and lichdom are not the same. Okay? They don't work the same at all. They don't provide the same benefits. They do not.

Can you TH off-equi?

Unfortunately, the admin (and all of those people who have explained over the years why lich does not give avenger status) seem to disagree with you. According to the mechanics and all of the conversations I have ever read, transmigrate and lich are not considered death in any way by any mechanic. You can try to lump lich in with sacrifice, but it simply doesn't fit. It is the parallel of trueheal, and always has been.

but in the bolded statement, it just seems that you think everyone else should have consequences except for demigods.

Yeah, but it doesn't restore it, so you can't move right away and the barrier is 7 seconds. You also have 0p.

Seemed like the complete opposite to me...

@Kharvik - Capping essence seems like a good idea, but unfair to demigods, so I don't like it. And have you ever lost demigod? Just wondering.

Isn't that the chance you take when you engage in combat. Don't want to lose? Don't raid or be careful. There has to be consequences for one's actions, which is why any ability that negates xp/essence loss encourages griefing, in a sense.

To put it simply, Ildaudid, some demigods like to bash and increase their essence count. Mkay? What are you not understanding? I'm saying that all demigods should lose the SAME AMOUNT OF ESSENCE when their health hits zero. I'm also saying that demigods should bash to their hearts content. How am I contradicting myself?

Yep. It doesn't restore it and you can't move away. You have a barrier of 7 seconds and it doesn't heal everything.
As amazing as you may be, Derian, you can't speak for the admin and if this is true, please link me? I'll all for reading. The reason I feel lichers don't gain avenger status is because they aren't losing anything when you kill them. So, they're sacrificing avenger protection for a 'free' death. In this game, it's about gains and losses. If you're not losing anything, why should avenger protect you? As far as I'm concerned, when you hit 0, you are dead.

I don't see trueheal and lich as anything similar. I see them as two transed abilities and which is more powerful, I won't get into. Just focus on the fact that gaining and losing xp is a big deal in muds. People like to gain and keep gaining.

@Ildaudid- I think my point flew over your head. I'm saying that all people need to face consequences for their actions and that it's been too easy for some to do whatever they wish, with nothing in place to help stem such activities.

I disagree with you here, Derian. Lich is a resurrection ability as it saves you from death, just like dark rebirth and transmigrate. You are an invincible soul for a set amount of time, then reform to a new body. If a person trueheals, they can still be attacked through various means and have no option of moving from the room aside from casting off afflictions that were previously on their person. In addition, trueheal cures significantly less that what you are currently assuming, and certainly less than what comes out of lich. Returning to the point that lich already has benefits for demigods involving significant stat boosts and the use of a room-wide attack (contagion). It's certainly not the useless skill that you're trying to make it out to be, with or without the essence loss.

That being said, the main suggestion here is just to have balance between the organizations. As mortals, each organization has abilities to mitigate experience loss or negating it entirely. Demigod changes this picture as they phoenix fire instead of becoming a soul, because of that, if you allow experience loss escape for some skills and not others the balance is entirely upset. Hence, why only allowing conglutination to mitigate experience loss is likely the most prudent path to take.

However, any benefits that come with those trans skills should be obtainable in the same fashion as a mortal would, namely by putting up the defense and dying.

What are you smoking?

Sure. I don't believe there are any direct admin quotes, but all of these threads touch on the topic of lich and exactly how it is not really death:

Lich and Vitae

Suspect, Lich, Transmigration, etc.

Suspect + Vitae

lich

The admin part of my claim comes in due to the implementation of lich. More on that below.
Lich is not a resurrection ability in that it does not save you from death any more than trueheal. Darkrebirth and transmigrate are also in the same category, but they are more powerful in that they save you from death and take you out of the location. Lich is like death in that you fall to 0 health and show up on deathsense. It is not similar to death in any other way though: you do not lose experience, the killer gains no experience, you gain no status. In other words, it looks like a death, but it has absolutely none of the effects of a death. In fact, it is exactly the same as trueheal except that it allows you to move, it is passive, and it strips all defenses. The skills are used in exactly the same way, the specifics are just slightly different.

The main suggestion is getting muddled - are you suggesting that the admin favor Magnagora? Or that everyone should have precisely the same experience loss in a given situation? Or that there should be no way to escape death once you get to a certain point? Or that demigods should always lose more experience than everyone else?

People seem to be implying all of those things, then lumping it together as one argument...

You didn't effectively kill us, why should we gain suspect? It'd be nice if killing a lich would give the lich suspect, but I don't think that'd be fair. And Lichdom doesn't need an upgrade just so transmigration can have one as well.

Hi! merian.gif

You shouldn't be able to vitae after you lich.

Lich is bad enough. It's not like Necros need TWO chances at evading dying. No one else gets that chance. You should get the choice between vitae and (the superior choice) liching; there's no need to have both.

So I propose that if you sip vitae while lich is up, your tainted skin repulses the elixir from having any effect. And if you darkchant lichdom while vitae is up, the tainted undead form removes the vitae defense.

That is all!

die.gif

The point, that, technically, for Avenger to come into play, you need to lose experience, from a game mechanic standpoint.

Yours is just the philosophy behind it.
Liching is dieing too, by that view, your body is rebuilt by the corporeal will of your ghost.
Ta-da.

Which doesn't seem unfair to you?

Huh? I'm just saying that liches should get the stat boost/regen/contagion ability, crow users get the retributive damage ability, and ecology users get to be brought back to a safe area. They would lose essence at the same rate as every other demigod. Which part was unfair?

Anyway, think everyone agrees that people should lose essence with Transmig/Lich.