Now that we've given things a week to cool off, is there any chance we could revisit this issue and find a balanced resolution? I believe all people are in favor of allow conglutination as a method of mitigating essence loss. The majority seem to believe that this should be the only method of reducing essence loss though a vocal minority does feel that skills such as lich, transmigration, and dark rebirth should also play a factor. Everyone would stand at the same chance for loss or gain. Major argument for only allowing conglutination is that it is the only means to be entirely fair across all organizations and demigods when death is a factor. Major argument against is that it would be unfair for people whom transed the requisite guild skill but cannot use the ability to its full potential. I believe it is also fair for any other bonuses from these death-escaping abilities to be gainable by a demigod without needing essence loss (ie. have defenses drop but not require death).

I think all you are going to do by necro'ing this thread is get mitbulls riled up and people answering the same as they did before like:







But, I am sure rehashing this is going to make people hot headed once again. I dunno though, maybe not. Lets see.

This topic doesn't need to be revisited at all. The majority of people who are actually demigods will acknowledge that no demigod will lose demi unless they want to as essence losts currently are. Even though Forren has stated that Thoros would've lost demi if it wasn't for lich, he also acknowledged that Thoros wouldn't have put himself in that situation if Lich did not prevent the essence loss. I personally feel that the real majority of people are okay with Demigod being fairly easy to maintain and essentially impossible to lose. You really gain nothing by sending a demi back to titan. They'll have it back in literally a week or less. There's really no point to this topic unless you want to start by increasing essence loss from death across the board, then compromising with skills.

So you're saying it's fine that one half of the game can become immune to essence loss? Demigods should be something hard to maintain. You say the majority think that Demigods should be able to evade essence loss entirely, and yet the vast majority in this thread disagree with you.

That there is a problem itself.

The vast majority is actually a loud minority again, just because you get 4 people to regurgitate the same thing over and over for pages and pages, does not always make it the vast majority.

As I said earlier, no need to necro this thread at all. If the admins want to address this issue, they will, in their own time.

The majority of people who care enough to post in this thread then

You're going to have to correct it one more time to "the majority of people who care enough to post an opinion on the topic in this thread," because if you're only counting everyone who's posted here, even then it's not a majority. For example, I've not said anything either way here, nor do I really see a need to. This thread outlived its purpose once it was confirmed that these skills give Demigods 0-essence-loss-on-death (that was actually quite informational). I expect these skills to either have no effect on a Demigods' essence loss, or just mitigate it to a small extent, depending on Admin preference.

In the end, though, it's their choice-- and the whole "squeaky wheel" thing seems to have pushed them away from considering it.

um really lich even for a demigod keeps somone alive after death but with TH you never actually die you cant really just hit Lich with a stick without looking at TH and going omg nevermind its balanced -in my eyes.-

Except the argument is that everyone in Mag can get Lich.
And even so, lich should not be compared to trueheal.

One requires 10p at time of death, the other does not.
One is given to an entire city, the other is a minority of a city.
One involves a death, the other does not.
One should cost essence, the other should not.

1. Agreed
2. The number of people who have a skill should not effect whether or not it should be included.
3. Neither actually involves death, mechanically
4. Arguable. You know I disagree, but I won't bother going back into it other than to correct your points here.

I'm not going to get sucked into this again, except to say that I agree with everything Nydekion said in his earlier post, and I agree that lich/etc. should not block essence loss. I simply think that this avoid the bigger problem. Essence is the exact same as experience - it could be argued that these people would never have made it to demigod at all if it weren't for the rezz skills. The problem is that rezz skills exist at all. I agree they should be removed for demigods, but they should also be removed for everyone else. I think that would make everything fair not only for demigods, but for everyone else as well. This is an issue which extends beyond demigods; if we're going to address it we might as well address it across the board.

Celest has two rezz skills. Trueheal is not one of them. Trueheal does not serve the same function as lich.

I know Xavius, but dont drag Mitty back here. He means lich being the mag trans skill which is helpful for escape, and TH being the celest skill that is helpful for escape as well. He doesn't mean it being a rezz skill which you are right celest has a way to rezz with bodies and with souls, and on top of it an escape or "get away from death" free card.

I think that is how Mitty is trying to compare it, both of them being ways to evade/escape from certain death.

But please please please, lets let the thread die again before these vocal minorities come and squeak the wheel again.

This is so much more fun than letting the thread die!

Don't worry, I'm not going to come back to argue anymore. I agree with you - the admin are the ones making the decision, and they'll decide on their own after reading over this. We don't have to resurrect the thread to make sure they hear about it; they already know what all of us vocal minorities have to say.

Are we worried about something? This isn't some old thread that has been resurrected from the dead.

Lich isn't gonna save you from death, TH will. THUS TH should require essence to use since it gives you a second chance like lich! Yes, that sounds good to me, but only for Demi's of course, since a transcendant skill that works on every other player who has it who isn't level 100 should be altered to cost a lot more upon reaching it! Genius, absolute genius! The argument is solid.

I'm certainly not worried about it-- I just feel there are other, more important, issues.

Like Constructs as a whole.

With both subjects, the Admin know that there are player concerns, and they'll address them when they feel like it / have time-- they've already said that the "squeaky wheel" syndrome being presented here it making it less likely for them to actually follow through. If you believe them, then letting the thread die for now while they discuss it is a good thing.

If you don't, I guess continuing to keep the thread alive works for you.

So the concern is that by posting, the admin will take it under closer examination? I doubt that it'll get in the way of other pending projects. That's silly.

By "closer examination," you mean "the Admin will just discard the issue because it's being harped on by a vocal minority," which was, indeed, stated by Estarra:

It's still the same people posting with the same arguments as before. If you think it's silly, well-- feel free to debate the quote.

As for timeframes: Estarra promised a while back that the DarkNest would be getting re-examined / upgraded if it was ever built. It was built a month or two back now, and there's been no further comment on it at all beyond that "Constructs are not being discussed at this time," so... I guess patience is in order.

The essence change is also up for discussion in the Envoy report, which is why I don't see a whole lot of urgency here. Hopefully it'll get fixed that way.