I would be fine with it, so long as tailors also get the option to recover all of the commodities used in robes and start over again, and enchanters can disenchant items and recover lost charges from them. That way we can all start over to get the best stats over and over without a large cost, and we will also pay the same for upkeep.



I think you're being a little overly dramatic. It won't cost much to keep your armor in perfect shape. Besides that, nothing says you have to keep it in perfect shape, just in relatively good shape. You might get it repaired every time you drop below 70% or something like that, it might cost 50 gold or something to do.

id like to see Robes take 100's of comms too.

Nah, repairing doesnt cost anything.

I need to look into it more later today too, but when a few of us were talking about this last night, Sojiro said he fixed his, went up bashing astral and it was down to slightly worn after and astral trip. Now this seems a bit fast for it to wear down, especially while bashing mobs. But mine has been at slightly worn since this change took effect. I have been bashing alot since then too, and it could be that there is a short time between perfect and slightly worn, and a very long time between slightly worn and the next level down. I am not sure if there is.

But say you go to UV bash, come back, refill potions, well spend 3 sec eq to repair armor a few times I don't think is terrible. I do think that it shouldnt go down as fast from perfect but that may just be something that needs some tweaking.

Why? Once we make robes, that's it, we don't get a chance to get the commodities back in any form. So once they're gone, they're gone.

Greatrobes require 90-100 comms, splendors, 125-150 (HELP TAILORING 2).

As most don't go for the technicality of larger amounts of gems as opposed to cloth or silk or leather, it racks up.

So, pricing; one of the more popular greatrobes in Glom; requiring 60 cloth, 15 silk and 20 leather. Thankfully, these comm prices have dropped, especially with how Steel has climbed (that argument I'll validate), but still...you can get comms back. These greatrobes; 8405 for the commodities. Then, with the typical enchanting price I've seen so far at 5k, so 13,405 k without a tailoring charge...and have that be the one shot and no chance to get any of it back, or go for better stats? I think it's a fair enough tradeoff.

Plate-suit, 125-145 comms needed, counting at all steel at 300 gold per steel (Glom market), 43500 (just over the price of 3 robe sets, which tends to be typical when you want decent stats). Now, how much of the comms do you get back if you don't like the stats and want to try again?

ermm sorry i didnt specify Tajalli but that was just one of my sarcastic replies to mitballs i think it was saying tailoring/enchanters should get to start all over

I think Tajalli's point still applies - the fact is that tailoring robes do require 100+ commodities for splendors at least. As a tailor, I would have no problem at all with greatrobes comm cost being increased if we could get the comms back from them.

These greatrobes; 8405

im rather positive my armour cost was about 10x that amount. 90k i spent or some such..
also alot of plates arn't instantly reforgeable as depending on the armour some comms arenot returned when smelted.

Ao uap ao urpicbd lnay. xad!

Ok dont hit ctrl-shift before typing, what I was saying above was, Besides forging plate, when you reforge you burn ALL non metal commodities. This is why it is a little pain for fullplate users. There is a very scarce amount of all metal fullplate designs. I think Shinza made one for Tharedian before slipping away again, and I know There is one in the clan called The Armory, which is where I got mine from. (<3 C-)

But for the most part, public fullplate has no all metal patterns (unless someone has made some recently) and that in itself causes the person to burn a LOT of non metal comms. I remember when I was making my gruesome suit of spiked fullplate (Dreadhelm design) that I burned through about 1000 rubies and onyx easily while making it.

Fullplate stats, if I am remembering right, have a total cap of 218, so for a capped well rounded plate it would be 109/109 (I may be wrong it might be a little less)

Now, in saying that, you can forge fullplate that ends up being 80/90 (aka bout the same as fieldplate) and that happens quite often, so I think if you are not using a full metal pattern, the comms come up more in the long run.


Now, those shears they started selling, don't they dismantle clothing back to the comms? Or just cut mending time? As expensive as they are, you would think that they would make it so you get comms back.

Isn't that problem kind of easily solved? Just poke your city's Forging Trademaster and tell him to get some all-metal designs made if there aren't any.

As someone who is both tailor with Splendour Robes and forger with Full Plate, here are my thoughts on the difference in the way they are crafted.

A forger relies only on herself, using only commodities that will maximise the returns which means all metal commodities usually. Forging takes time, but the item can be instantly smelted, commodities retrieved and reforged. Eventually, and that is a very generic term as a forging period can take anything from a single try to multiple RL weeks to forge something with good stats. Forging one with decent stats can be kept and then forge another in your free time hoping to get one with better stats. Once a better one is forged, the old one is smelted down and the commodities retrieved without loss. Repairing of armour is free too and only takes up a minimum amount of time. Plate can't be proofed against elements.

A tailor has to craft the splendour robe, and is not allowed to hold more than one despite the fact that only the tailor can wear it like a fullplate can only be worn by its forger. The tailor then has to seek out an enchanter to enchant the robe which takes power and a fixed duration of time per robe. If the robe turns out bad or not to the tailor's taste, the robe is then scrapped or sheared (if you have the artifact) for a minimal amount of commodities returned and a new robe is crafted from a fresh set of commodities plus whatever can be retrieved. If the robe is not scrapped, it will be instantly destroyed upon the creation of a new splendour robe. The upside to it is that splendour robes can hold all 4 proofings available and apparently does so with a greater percentage than what normal great robes, cloaks and coats can hold. Repair of a robe takes gold, which again can be reduced by an artifact and is instant.

Further differences between the two are that Full Plate has no decay time but now requires maintanence at various intervals. Splendour Robes has decay time but has no further degradation in combat, and needs mending to prevent decay.

While it sounds better for Forgers over Tailors in this case, you have to remember that forgers forge not just plate, they also forge helm, shields and weapons for themselves and other fighters. Given the amount of time at a forge for each good quality item, it is enough to turn most people off. Therefore as it is, I feel that as some have pointed out, they both have trade offs which in my mind balances each other out. Also a direct comparision between the two is not really valid given the differences in method of crafting. One thing I would like to see changed though is that a tailor can create more than one Splendour. This will alleviate the anxiety of getting a "worse" robe than before and allowing the tailor a choice of which robe to wear and shear the others.

Fullplate, you're looking at 225 comms. Usually metal, often expensive metals. Often with comms other than metals which are not returned when smelted. But, we'll assume most people go for suits made from metal. (That said, there's a silverblade design that's mostly wood).

Steel averages around 300. Other minerals seem more volitile in their price, but are as likely to fall above 300 as below 300 (and often require more scrounging work and waiting for production that steel does).

Something else to think about- forging is pretty heavily tied to knightood. Does every knight take it? No. Is it necessary? Hardly- I can think of a few well known knight-fighters who don't wear fullplate.

But, at the end of the day, it is fullplate, and it's only worn by one archtype, and then, not all members of that archtype. It also is the archtype most defensively oriented, and one that is, more than any other, dependent on decaying, forged weapons for their offense. Expensive ones at that. Last night, I was working on someone's rapier for about four hours. In actuality, I like that sort of thing because when you finally get it, there's a sick sense of accomplishment. And I'd be sad if that went away.. I actually like it more than bashing or fighting, for whatever reason.

Can you rune weapons so that they don't decay? Yes, if you want to sink the credits into a good one. Can you preserve armour/robes like that? No, but that's a different argument. Personally, I think you should be able to for a substantial credit cost.

But at the same time, it's not as if offensive spells and abilities themselves decay over time. People are ignoring the whole picture here and focusing on a subset of warriors who have non-decaying armour, and comparing it to another profession that isn't bound to an archetype, and who's trans item is used by archetypes who don't have decaying main offensive equipent, and who aren't relatively so defensively oriented. It's apples to oranges- yeah, they're both fruit, but very different fruit.

As Clise pointed out, something that Tajalli is missing in her assessment is... the helm. Similar time investment to Plate, another commodity resource, and again has half the decay time of robes.

I do believe that they were relatively balanced against each other before this change. I also do not believe that this change was intended to bring plate in "balance" with robes-- it seems it was instead intended for realism. Really, though, for realism purposes, robes should degrade just the same-- tailors would have a Mend skill and a Patch skill. Mend would bring its decay time back up to max, and patch would bring its status back up depending on how much decay time is left.

However, there's a time when realism is just overly frustrating. There's already a maintenance cost on robes, and a maintenance cost on plate/helms. Both of them should have the same degradation in combat effectiveness either way-- that's simply a mechanics/balance point, but do they really *need* this added maintenance?

WHat?

Reforging is NOT where I have ever made any signifcant amount of money.

285 months is a LONG time. Most people don't last that long. Most people do however buy an initial set of armour. Sometimes they are silly and even slowly upgrade thier armour over time.

285ish is weapons. 123 is armour. The "sale" is where the forger makes their money. "You want what stats? That will cost x, as it will be an average of y reforgings to attain it." Same thing whether it's the first set of armour, or the five hundredth-- just because you've had 499 previously doesn't mean the five hundredth will be any easier to forge in one go. It's still a number of forgings, and a smith charges appropriately for the really nasty works that take a few hours to do.

And splendors freaking decay if you accidentally make another splendor (does this happen for fullplates?)

I believe so, yes-- you can only make one full plate, afaik.

You people complain too much, I repair all guild/communemates armour for free whenever they ask since it's only 2-3 secs of eq loss for me, no trouble unless I'm not there.

As far as the fullplate vs. splendours debate, that's a whole other problem to deal with.

I see what you were saying now. by the way your first post was written it made it sound like by "reforging" you meant, to help defer the cost of the decay. As in, "My armour is about to decay, please reforge it."

From what Clise was saying, you can make multiple suits so that you can be sure to get decent stats.

Multiple suits as in reforging them. Can not actually have two at once.