Here's some for Beauty:

Minor - Bless a race with a sipping bonus on bromides potions.

Lesser - Bless a guild with immunity to one completely random type of Dramatics affliction.

Major - Bless a city/commune so that they are twice as effective in one random (non city/commune specific) influence type. (It would take half the time to win an ego battle with using this random type as usual)

Oh, and I went through and picked out all the Blessing suggestions I could find and made a seperate thread. Here

Except this system provides nothing to the game for ninety-nine percent of players. Inverted, a guild/archetype-providing organization provides something for ninety-nine percent of player. I'm not "outraged". I'm outraged. I don't see how you can really brush it off humorously and tell us 'tough crap' when we're all equal customers in the fact that we play the game and should be allowed to interact with the pieces that make it a whole. Yet again, I'm going to point out that a close-minded attitude of 'tough one' to players does nothing for your supposed goals of player retention.

My suggestion remains that you drop the 'non-'mortals' only!' schtick and allow mortals to reach it at a powerful cost and only at the escort of an Ascendant or Demigod. This gives mortals limited access, but access that is enough for a mortal to help turn the tides of a battle for a throne. You told me to suggest ways to provide conflict to the game, and tried to convince me that the nexus worlds was a good place to start my suggestions. I will politely disagree and say you are making a gigantic mistake and wasting loads of potential by catering to an infinitesimal amount of players while the rest of us are left out in the snow simply because we're more interested in trying to get what combat we can than killing the same mobile over and over in a grindfest.

Also Fain? I love the moniker. It's oh so fitting.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Rodngar. I'm not going to debate the issue with you except to say we are declining your suggestions. If we lose players because we are going to implement a system system for those at the top level, so be it--I'm at peace with our decision. (Why do I get the impression you have a chip on your shoulder as large as Avechna's Peak?)

As Forren suggested, the idea of releasing globes onto the astral plane for each of the Domoth would create a constant state of conflict. Also, as Daganev pointed out, some people would prefer that the system be just for the demigods/ascendants to work with, especially for those who dislike combat. So let's go with Yrael's idea of having it mixed up a bit.

So what about mini-challenges for ascendants/demigods to claima Domoth during the corresponding month? Give us your ideas!

Nature: Only open to those with herbs? Domoth globes claimed by picking herbs?

Chaos: Domoth globes claimed on the astral plane (as per previous idea).

Harmony: Domoth globes claimed by influencing creatures.

Beauty: Domoth globes claimed by painting certain portraits.

Knowledge: Domoth globes claimed by performing puzzles.

Justice: Debating??

War: Domoth globes claimed by trials of combat.

Death: Domoth globes claimed by killing creatures.

Life: Domoth globes claimed by healing sick mobs?

Anyway, you get the idea! Suggestions welcome!

Personally, I'm leery of requiring Demis/Ascendants to invest credits to get so many different skills. That's just a personal dislike, thought- I've always entertained the idea of ascending, but I'm not exactly the richest person in the world.

One thing I thought of for Nature was rejuvinating the land instead of harvetsing it- replanting herbs, cleansing it of unnatural forces (demesnes), etc.

(Though replanting would need to be made easier, since it's an extremely..tedious..task)

Err...whut? I just got confused by this suggestion. Is this to make it so that a certain Seal and effects are open to Ascendants who...do a certain task? :/ -confused-

I don't know how you can't debate this issue with me when you know pretty well that you are catering to one tiny demographic of players and Lusternia is made up of a much, much larger set of groups than just one. How can you say that you focus on keeping players to our faces on many occasions when ideas concerning conflict are brought up, deny that there is a lack of reasonable (and worth while) conflict in the game despite all of our arguments, then bring in a system that could potentially solve our problem and only open it up to one small group of players? How can you basically say 'tough cookies' and expect to keep players (and customers, don't forget those) when several of us are pretty sure you're just throwing another bone to people who sit and kill mobiles all day? They already get the benefits of a Titan and a Demigod. In my opinion, you've really overfed the puppy concept of level 100 into a ridiculously obese canine - those that insist it's worse in other MUDs.. I don't think max level has ever been as integral and emphasized as it has here in Lusternia.

Why don't you expand this content to everybody instead of just those people that already have more than enough free things? How can you possibly rationalize that?

If you then say we have the potential to participate by hitting level 100, you have just turned Lusternia in to TextWoW, where to participate in the 'good stuff', you have to be a Demigod (read: to raid or PvP at 'full efficiency' so to speak, you must be level 70 is the constant and mainstream, likely correct, understanding). You have made getting level one-hundred an important and integral piece of playing the game and have given very few alternative options to this - sure, I can just not level. But then I miss out on the ability to participate where conflict may be happening, thus rendering one of my interests effectively neutered.

There is no chip. I do have, though, is a serious problem with the design decision made here that's severely skewed in favor of people who have a higher level than me when it shouldn't matter any more than it already does right now (which is already a ridiculously high amount, what with Titan buffs and Demigod powers). Not only do they get a clear cut combative advantage over me, they now also get to progress in to their own area that will likely become the new center of conflict and combat in the game? I'm going to pretty much call an outright 'BS' on that one.


EDIT: I just figured out why you can't, nevermind.

Uh what? You can fight at level 65 if you want to. These are designed to actually provide something for level 100 players to do. Why bash? My essence doesn't matter much. I PK enough. This is something to keep us Demigods enjoying the game, not something to excude others.


Rodngar. Dude. I have 160 rl days played on Lusternia. Other level 100s approach the same. It's not like Estarra is trying to cater to a special interest too. This is not a huge new area - this is something to give Demigods a purpose. Right now there's a distinct lack of one.

Really, really need to cut down on the impulse to throw about accusations. Firstly, Estarra never mentioned she can't discuss the issue with you, she chose not to as is anyone's right really to choose whether they'd like to entertain someone's opinion or not.

Nextly, for some reason, you (or I think you do) firmly believe that things in Lusternia ONLY cater to the whims of the demigods and Ascendants....I don't know what you're looking at, but I'll reiterate what I wrote a couple posts back. There are MULTIPLE ways for someone to achieve greatness or prosperity within Lusternia. This system is meant to encourage one aspect among the OTHERS they've no doubt already have planned to put up. Don't want to hunt for hundreds of hours? Fine, go learn how to fight. Not a combatant? We've politics. Not into elections and campaigning? Get a shop. Explore, influence, debate, be known as one of the best role players, but go choose something. Bashing to demigod/ascendant status is not the only way to benefit from the game.

The system, as I see it, potentially brings about another level of excitement not only for those who like to bash, but for direct combatants and supporters as well should the astral thing come about. The only stickler a lot of people seem to be caught up on is the (most likely) fact that normal mortals can't explore the Domotheos realms. I mean, if it'll cost demigods and ascendants their basic being of themselves just to be up there, how could mortals possibly achieve this?

Not meaning to be rude or disrespectful, but I'm letting out my own opinion of your stuff. Feel free to ignore it as Estarra has chosen to decline your own.

So the Seal events?

I would prefer it if the ascendant/demi could only participate for an hour but at any time of the month. (They visit the throne to activate a blessing or something "The eye of War watches over you")
Then within that hour they could gain globes from the related action.

Nature: Perhaps a series of quests added to the "natural" zones that only work during this month. Maybe a few different endings so that the orgs can do something aligned to their rp but still resulting in the globes?

Beauty: Could this be all paintings and work like the scavenger hunt? (presented to the throne to get the globes)

War: Demi's/Ascendants produce globes when slain by others?

I am not quite sure how this would turn out, I am not saying it would be bad, but at least for the Nature one, say that a city has an ascendant who is not an herbalist, nor are any of it's demi's herbalists. Wouldn't that just knock the city out of the contest right there, at least for the nature domoth?

You are right to an extent.

Personally, leveling has always been a side-interest for me.

I've always maintained that the only real reason to be involved in a MUD is the people; and I always measure the success of my characters in the things they create. That, ultimately, is why I've stuck with Lusternia three times longer than any other MUD: it's given me the most latitude to make a lasting mark on the environment.

What makes the achievement of demigod unique from a game-design perspective is that it's benchmark open to everyone in the game, without any direct competition or restriction save the willingness to invest massive amounts of time and effort.

When all else fails for you in Lusternia; when your political aspirations go south; when your Order role-play crumbles because the admin behind the god got himself fired; when all your in-game friends suddenly vanish because of the demands of the holidays and somehow never reappear after; when you get kicked out of the guild you've devoted months to because the GA's girlfriend thought it would be cute to tell him lies about you to make him jealous; when you lose your shop because you were in the hospital for a month and couldn't log on to stock it or pay your taxes; or when you're just so brain-dead and burned out from a rough week at work that you don't want to talk to anybody... you can still come kill time in Lusternia and achieve something tangible within the game by pursuing the leveling track.

Even gold disappears as you invest it, but leveling stays (just as long as your savvy enough not to get killed faster than you can make the XP back).

Leveling is the simple, streamlined gaming hook at the heart of the IRE engine, and anyone who's actually achieved demigod has become heavily invested in that hook. Yes, there are plenty of other things they could be doing, plenty of other goals they could be pursuing, but none of those currently available fill the same emotional need.

My own needs would be addressed way better if the admins were investing their time and energy into developing aspects of the game that revolved around trade, industry, and economic development. At level 91, I purpotedly haven't even hit the halfway mark on "experience needed to demigod".

None of that changes the fact that, from a game design perspective, Lusternia needs to develop demi-god only challenges to add meaning to having achieved demigod. And the more meaning there is to actually being a demi-god, the more meaning the effectively universal quest to become a demigod takes on.

The basic goal here, of demi-gods only material, is sound and sensible. No matter how few people you think it applies to, it matters to the health of Lusternia as a whole.

"Dude," I have way more. You can't really use days played to justify it.

That said, something for Demigods to do is only a good thing-- they do tend to wander away unless they're Forrens.

Though I think I might be able to "share" Rodngar's point a bit better than he seems capable of at the moment.

Rodngar: "Lusternia needs more Conflict."
This is proposed: Area / System of Conflict for Demigods / Ascendants.
Rodngar: "But I want more conflict for us little guys too. Where's our conflict? *Post huge rant that barely touches on this point*"

It is actually a valid concern, if he feels that all conflict is being pushed off into the level 100 realm so nobody else will see it. It would explain the posts. I don't really believe that's what's happening, though.

For me, it's not that I entirely disagree with the idea of a system for Demigods, it's that Lusternia is boring and just going downwards (I mean, seriously, when AETOLIA is more interesting than your game, you know it needs some work... there's a reason me, Thoros, Forren, etc have all started playing it). Now, if Lusternia was full of interesting mortal conflict and such, then I wouldn't disagree with a bit of time being spent on the Demigods - but as-is, ignoring the woefully neglected mortal conflict in favor of adding something that will only ever be used by 1% of the playerbase just seems like you're wasting time when you could be improving the game at large.

Rodngar, this isn't just for Demigods (not that I think you have a point about that, cause I don't). It's also for Vernal Ascendants and True Ascendants. Both of whom could possibly be ANY level when they are chosen to represent their org (in the case of VAs) or win the contests (in the case of TAs)- which, by the way, don't all have much of anything to do with hunting/fighting. In the Ascension Event, there was a scavenger hunt, design contest, knowledge quiz, quests.

My point is, anyone has the potential to be a VA or TA... especially a TA. Even you. Even me.

Well, up to 4 VAs at a time, and one TA every RL year or so. That means for the next RL year, that's about 6 people out of Lusternia's entire playerbase, assuming all four orgs make one.

Pretty slim chances, really. It seems this is more aimed at giving Demigods something to do. There are / will be many more of them during that time, representing a much larger percent of the players, and anyone can actually work towards that.

The problem as has been stated is that TAs aren't going to be all that common, even then it's probably going to be someone of a decently high level.
VAs also are restricted to one per org so right now we can only have five ascendants. Demigod is more feasible I think.

The complaints that this system is out of the reach of most of the playerbase is really solid. At this moment we have 1126 players lvl 30 and up. Of that there are 20 Demigods and 1 Ascendant. or less than 0.02% of our players.

If the system allowed for everyone to participate and help a demigod/ascendant then it might be better but still people are going to feel left out. Honestly, I'm not as excited about this system as other things because I know I'm probably never going to actually get to be involved aside from having some random person bestow a blessing on me and then having someone take it away without my ability to control that.

Well if you are under the assumption that we're dropping everything and only working on this system, you may have a point. But that just isn't true. As you may have noticed, we're throwing a lot of effort into the nexus world system (more updates to come!) as well as working on monks, constant envoy reports, etc. Further, this system (or the original idea anyway) was very streamlined from a coding standpoint and wouldn't have been an enormous effort on our part. Also, the Domoth Realms area itself is not some huge sprawling undervault area but a small area under 15 rooms. This was all taken into account before posting this rough draft, a simple streamlined idea that we could easily implement that would also (finally) give something for demigods to do to distinguish them (other than personal powers) which I've been wanting to do ever since demigods came out.

I still have hope that when we finish with the nexus world system that it will provide an intriguing conflict system. Is there need for something more? Maybe! Time will tell. If you want to start another thread on why or how Aetolia or any game works for you in terms of meaningful conflict, I'll be more than interested to hear. Maybe it will spawn an idea that we can use! (Remember, the nexus world system was inspired by player ideas.) If you want to enrich the environment, great! Let us know how to do it, but don't take it out on the demigods! (Yes, we can multitask!)