It's time for this thread to get back on topic.

We'd like to hear more about what can be done with this idea, not interminable arguments about the validity of an alternative.

You're hearing what can be done with this idea. I just don't think anybody is listening the right way.

No, we've heard what you think can be done about the idea. You've been extremely vocal. Now we'd like to hear some other ideas.

"You could make it involve mortals" is, I think, the general argument.

Honestly I feel like if this goes in it'll just be yet another system that no one uses (see: aetherspace specializations, miniatures, influencing as a viable alternative to bashing, karma curses, the snore-fest that village revolts have been reduced to, the ignored remnants of conflict quests... there used to be an entertaining file in DoK about this titled something along the lines of "crap the admins added and then forgot about" but I think it was lost when the clan was deleted -- EDIT: looks like I found it after all... ahh, Amaru...).

I'm sorry that I'm more than willing to supply my input of 'it could involve everybody instead of thirty some-odd people' - and I think some people agree with me. That's what you could do with this idea.

Astonishingly, I had already gathered that.

This is a brainstorming thread. It is not for gathering a consensus, it is for hearing a variety of ideas. Now we'd like to hear some different ideas.

Okay, here's an idea:

Make a "demigod side" and a "mortal side" to this system. The demigod side is the side that's done by the demigods, VAs, and TAs that Estarra has already come up with that sounds good. The mortal side would be done by groups of mortals who pledge their support for a given demigod before entering a challenge or whatever for the throne (which could be done in the form of a world event, or just as a coded area thing). The challenge would loosely relate to the throne - death could be a wargames, harmony could be an xp contest between the groups, etc. To claim a throne, both the demigod side and the mortal side have to be won by the same faction.

Some factors would have to be accounted for, like numbers of people involved. I think pledging should be a constant thing, so you could walk in half-way on certain challenges (obviously a wargames would not be one of them), if your idea was the case.

EDIT: Nice shot on deleting my post there, Fain. What I originally said was 'I'm not going to shut up because you think I've voiced my idea enough', pretty much. I love how the Administration treats players who are particularly vocal about their suggestions, it's pretty nice to know you all care.


Fain's edit: Eight posts above this one I asked you to keep this thread on topic. That implied some degree of moderation. You're welcome to start your own thread on the topic of your choice, but I want to keep this one clear.

Does that seem reasonable to you?

Regarding the way "the administration treats players who are particularly vocal about their suggestions", you will note that this thread is full of unmolested posts by you on this one point. We have heard it adequately, now it would be nice to hear some different ideas.

I think that we have all heard you at this point, Rodngar, and that you made your point in your initial post several pages ago. I don't significantly disagree with your assertion that it would be preferable for this system to involve non-Demigods/Ascendants in some supporting role, and it is likely that we will incorporate ideas which involve the playerbase-at-large. Let's move on from that point and, as Fain suggested, get back on topic with brainstorming how to involve the playerbase-at-large.

I also believe your argument that it is unreasonable for game features to cater to a minority of players is fundamentally flawed. If that were the overriding principle of Lusternia's game design, you would be playing a World of Warcraft clone right now - let's face it: the MUD community in itself is a niche of gamers (despite being the only one that really matters ). Some game mechanics don't appeal to all players, such as Xenthos' noted dislike of aetherspace battles, and that's something we accept when we design new features, and part of the reason we try to offer so many different viable options for players.

You can lump me in with Xenthos. I'll always prefer a real fight instead of anything gimmicky like aetherspace battles, really.

However, I think the original suggestion of allowing players to go with (and only go with) an Ascendant or a Demigod at a high cost to themselves, the 'host', or both would work fine. Depending on how the throne is held would decide who'd want to go, etc. For instance, if war throne was just a bloodbath at the throne area for a good thirty minutes.. you could count me in. But for nature, if you have to rummage around or cultivate plants? I'll stay home, thanks, but I'm sure somebody else who likes that kind of thing would be glad to go.

What I'm saying is that mortals would like to participate hands on and say 'hey, I think I'll go for Ascendant or Demigod' if they like it. Shamarah's idea is also good - and so is the possibility of combat on Astral or other planes. However, I'd like the idea to stay away from already organized systems (like Wargames for Death, for instance) - instead focusing on a grander scale of things outside of the arena or within it's own condensed area.

Have you ever even been in a real aetherspace battle where both sides had specialists and it involved several ships? It isn't gimmicky, it's a lot of fun. Dismissing something out of hand when you have not participated in it is rather close minded.

It depends on the person, as Morgfyre said. Not everything is appealing to everyone. Aetherships are that for me.

Right, I'm not saying it's for everyone. Just him calling it a gimmick when it's probably likely he hasn't actually participated seemed a bit much.

I'd had fun with even the single unspecialized fights going pewpew pewpew pewpew pew!

Which has become the greatest insult of Lusternia on Achaea's forums, during that silly thread of theirs.

But it's still fun

I like how they say that as if it's a bad thing!

Didn't you know? An IRE game is only good if it's an EXACT COPY of its predecessors, but with room names and class names (mostly) changed.

EDIT: Doing the same thing back to him is not that helpful either! - Mods

Murphy edit: Oh come on, everyone is thinking it, we have too many idiots around these days and this guy just can't take a hint

Back on topic though.

My ideas for the Ascendent system are as follows:

The nine Domoth realms of the karmic seals each have a specific time period. Ascendents and Demigods may only enter the realms during the corresponding time period, otherwise they are off limits. During the period, Ascendents and Demigods may put the throne of power into play at any time they wish, but it will be wise not to put it into play at the end of the period as the realm will summarily eject everyone when the time period ends regardless of whether anyone won the throne. Also each org can only put the throne into play once per time period. The time period will be a period of around half a Lusternian year (150 hours or 6.25 RL days). This should ensure no burn out from constant conflict I think.

Putting a throne in play alerts everyone in game with some blazing message across the skies. At the moment the throne puts into play, it will last for 2 hours, beyond that, it will shut down and eject everyone and consider it a loss for the org that put it into play. Winning a throne gives the blessing to the org that will last for 25 RL hours.

Only Ascendents and Demigods may enter the Domoth realms freely. Ascendents can enter the realm for no cost, Demigods may enter for either a fixed cost upon entry or a drain per minute. Mortals may enter the realm through the following methods:
1) An Ascendent may escort up to 2 mortals at a fixed cost.
2) A Demigod may escort up to 1 mortal at a fixed cost.
3) When a throne is put into play, an ethereal edifice will appear at each nexus of power, mortals may focus on the edifice if they wish at a cost of willpower drain. For every 5 mortals(to be decided) that focuses, 1 mortal may enter the realm with a willpower cost. If 5 mortals were focusing and one dropped out due to moving away, stopping the focus or has the willpower completely sapped, the mortal in the realm supported this way would be ejected from the Domoth. Same if the mortal in the Domoth runs out of willpower this way, he or she will be ejected as well.

Each realm will have a specific task that needs to be performed while within the realm. The blessings that corresponds to the Domoth depends on how much of the task is performed.

The Domoth of Knowledge
The Domoth comprise entirely of an enormous library but alas, the books appears to be stolen by mischevious spirits and they are running rampant all over. The task of the org that put the throne into play has to rearrange the books into proper order, but it seems the opposing orgs won't let it be performed so easily ... or would they?
A certain number of rooms with bookshelves marked with arcane symbols and a number of spirits will be flitting around out of phase with a book or two on them. The only way to hunt them is to have someone focus on a bookshelf and all spirits carrying the tome marked with the arcane symbol of the shelf will become visible. The tomes dropped by the spirits have to be placed into the bookshelf, and once all books are returned to that bookshelf, the bookshelf will be unfocusable. Enemy orgs may not hurt the spirits but their task is to prevent the org from returning as many books as they can. Depending on how well the task is performed, a blessing will be awarded.
Minor blessing: For the next 25 hours, karmic blessings of knowledge cost no karma upon getting it and has no karmic upkeep for the org in question.
Normal blessing: In addition to the minor blessing, scholars escorted to the Great Library in the Org will generate double culture and power.
Major blessing: In addition to the minor and normal blessing, enemies of the org who enters any area under the control of the org will suffer -1 int weighted penalty as the Throne protects the org for performing well.

The Domoth of Harmony
The Domoth lies entirely under an influence of peace and thus no violence is possible. A number of disturbed spirits roam the plane in a state of unrest. The task of the org is to influence the spirits with the type of influence they are weak against, and the mindset of each spirit is random. A spirit successfully influenced will turn into a serene spirit. All serene spirits have different mindset of what they were before and the task of enemy orgs is to use the same influencing tactic to disrupt their equilibrium and turn them back into a disturbed spirit. This is a battle of debate and fast talking. Depending on how well the task is performed, a blessing will be awarded.
Minor blessing: For the next 25 hours, karmic blessings of harmony cost no karma upon getting it and has no karmic upkeep for the org in question.
Normal blessing: In addition to the minor blessing, fae/angel/demon gathered/empowered through influencing gives double power to the org and double esteem to the influencer.
Major blessing: In addition to the minor and normal blessing, experience/essence loss for deaths are reduced by 10% and experience gain is boosted by 5%. (Values can be tweaked)

The Domoth of Chaos
The Domoth is small but a powerful Chaos Beast roams the plane. It is invincible but can be hurt. The Beast itself does not do any damage but has special attacks that causes weird stuff to happen to whomever it targets (I leave this up to you). Players may not attack each other in the presence of the Beast, anyone that does so will be banished to Astral. However what happens out of sight of the Beast still occurs freely. The Beast roams around and teleports with no warning at will. The task for the org here is to do as much damage as you can within the 2 hours. The task for enemy orgs is to limit the amount of damage the org can do. Depending on how well the task is performed, a blessing will be awarded.
Minor blessing: For the next 25 hours, karmic blessings of chaos cost no karma upon getting it and has no karmic upkeep for the org in question.
Normal blessing: In addition to the minor blessing, essences placed into the nexus of power adds +1 more power in addition to whatever they add.
Major blessing: In addition to the minor and normal blessing, 1/6th of damage done by anyone from the org is converted to a random damage type.

Okay, too tired to think up anything for the rest of the Domoths but I am sure you all can think up something.

EDIT: Oh btw, I prefer a fixed cost for entries, given that death cost essence, going in cost essence, Demigods have alot to worry about besides a constant drain.