This would be known as an issueable bug, if someone is forcing it.

Trying to relate another skill's use to a bug is kind of sketchy, even if the other one is valid. It does support the "lame tactic" idea, though!

How would that be issuable? It's not a bug afaik.

So that's how they do it. I always see people staffing themselves and never could figure it out

The game is hard-coded to not let you attack yourself without having sipped anatine. However, with clever syntax use it's possible to get around this hardcoding because it wasn't added into a check in that specific instance. Thus, a bug. Thus, issueable if it is being forced-- bug abuse.

(How can you really see being able to attack yourself without anatine as not being a bug? It's very much intended to not be allowed-- check the "You can't attack yourself" message.)

I heard you don't bleed with claws + fleshstone anymore. Not sure about the phobia attack though.


Point staff me ether. I can see how "here" might be a bug, but not "ether". Ether seems really specific, and not used a lot like "here" for skills, i.e. old boulderblast "geocast boulderblast here" blah blah blah.

Look at me, pretending I know about combat!

Same way-- you're attacking yourself, which you're not supposed to be able to without being clumsy. You can't just POINT STAFF ME, for example. It just seems to be an issue with POINT STAFF ME *an extra,* something which They didn't think of and didn't put in the AttackingSelf() check.

Is ether used in anything else though? :S

Lame Tactics... main list... read bottom after

-Hunger
-Sleep
-Force empty
-Force power loss
-Drain whoring (if you dont have power thats one thing but draining 50 times is just dumb.. closest I have done was drain like 7% from yevah so she couldnt inqui, I officially killed her tactics, which in hindsight wasnt as interesting, but stopped her from wasting power)
-Force Drop
-Totem/Statue on road (yes you can do that long as its not city/commune enemies.. you can do personal supposedly)
-Force drunk

However... Hunger is the easiest to deal with... preserved food + basket = long term food. And yes people keep food around. Can you fault cacophony for hunger? No.. thats how they were made. Can you fault me? Sure, have I used it? Rarely. Why? 1) People didnt tend to carry food 2) People tend to notice fights go on a long time or would go on a long time before I start feeding, because I am not a fan of it (quicken feed I also try to avoid to a further extent). Sleep.. dreamweavers, spiritsingers.. will you complain if they use it? No.

Rest of it is rather bad.. I could just use luciphage symbol and run around with ORDER POUR QUICKSILVER and/or ORDER POUR PHLEGMATIC... but really how lame would that be to make em unable to cure aeon? Power draining isnt usually feasible )go head drain like 80% reserves ) and force drop and such you dont usually see.

For the most part people are good at self policing.. MOSTLY. If something comes up you usually hear the envoys nerfed it, based on how bad it is could be in a week or two or next report at least.

Tactics that "disrupt the flow of combat" represent the overwhelming majority of Dreamweaving abilities. Sleep, blackout, and epilepsy just to name a few.

Personally, I think that if I manage to get you in a sleeplock, I deserve it. Dreammist's effect is minimal - certainly a lot more minimal than any other demesne effect. Neither I, anyone else, or a demesne effect can damage you without you waking up. There are several defenses against sleep, most of which are easily replaced. And I've yet to find the person that stood there while I successfully DEEPSLEEPed them (deepslept?) five times in a row, even in group combat.

I generally think of "lame" tactics as "something the other person really can't do anything to stop, realistically." Maybe there are a few other things I might lump in there, but putting someone to sleep is not one of them.

You're thinking like a warrior here. Other people can't attack themselves even if they do sip anatine. So, basically, you're saying it's a bug for anyone besides warriors (and now monks) to be able to attack themselves at all.

Doesn't that seem a little strange to you?

As for the hunger/sleep thing...I agree that it sucks, but I wouldn't call it cheap. Dreamweavers, spiritsingers, cacophony, and sometimes geomancers have to rely on tactics like that to ever kill anyone. If you suggest that people should never use those tactics, you are basically guaranteeing that nobody can ever kill effectively as those classes (with the exception of geos).

I would definitely also include forcing debate in this category. Give the right affliction, force debate, and psychicvampirism afterwards and you already have the target in bursting range in a lot of cases. It's similar to forcing focus spirit or cannibalism in my opinion - I only ever used it against people like Narsrim, Forren, etc. who I knew would use similar tactics against me.

Oh, and don't forget ordering to bury. Ordering the target to bury their weapons is an amazing idea in theory, but incredibly cheap. I have considered using it many times to order griefing group leaders to bury their cubix, but that's about the only acceptable application, and even then only in extreme circumstances to get a point across.

I don't think hunger is a lame tactic. Everyone KNOWS about it, so you can bring around food just like anything else. It's different from forcing people to debate you or empty their vials because starvation is preventable.

Sleep isn't a lame tactic, in my opinion. It's perfectly viable. If I can't keep insomnia and kafe up, I deserve to get slapped around. Spamming hunger skills when it isn't a class mechanic? That is. I forgive Cac's - but not any random Necromancer? who can spam feed.

It requires you to be on balance and you can protect yourself from debating entirely. It also takes 6 seconds for me to recover the Super channel after forcing it. There's plenty of time to cure ego. When a system is functioning properly, your ego will be near fully cured by the time I get balance back. It's not like it drains you entirely. The only people who get killed routinely by this are those that don't sip because their systems ignore the recklessness I give. It's more than you think. Most of those complaining about it when I use it never sip. Not my fault - fix your system.

Only lame tactic I've ever seen in Lusternia was dilute, and it was removed.

Psivampirism, hunger, sleep, etc. can mostly be prevented or treated in a way. Hunger is negated with food, and if you are a serious combatant you should not have to complain about having to spend money on food, especially with how easy it is to get gold within the game. Sleep? Hah, run 20 rooms, sleep, wake 2 minutes later, return. Very easy peasy. If the dreamweaver gets annoyed, well hell they are using an annoying skill you will use an annoying way to fix it. Psivampirism? Though willpower is very hard to accumilate unless you sit meditating for a while just run and meditate with psi shield up, when they enter and break run and meditate. They decided to use psivampirism, they know about willpower drain, so they should learn to deal with the ways you have to deal with said problem if they still cannot manage to kill you after draining 20,000-30,000 willpower.















Inquisition is very lame too but I dont want to say it out loud due to Celestines becoming butthurt.

That statement is false. It is possible for anyone to attack themselves with their targeted abilities by sipping anatine. Monks can combo themselves, warriors can swing at themselves, people can use tarot on themselves, so on and so forth. Anatine allowing people to target themselves with their own targeted abilities is the norm, not the exception. Also, it is even possible to target one's self with enemy list abilities, but it takes more than just anatine to do it.

You throw this statement out there in small type, but support it with nothing. I personally find Inquisition easy to avoid, since it actually has time limits on when the next step can be completed. Just like you've mentioned that it is possible to keep moving and meditate if a person is trying to Psivamp your willpower to 0, it is also possible to keep moving as soon as a person Heretics you. Even better than Psivamp, running away when the person starts the Inquisition process forces them to use up power.

Oh, and I also find it amusing that Inquisition is lame now, when it was fine when you had it.

Nope, it doesn't-- Geb's already said why. As a further expansion-- Forren used to carry anatine around so he could sip it and gust himself when stuck in a barrier.

It may have been said but this is usually how people classify something as lame. If there is no practical way to prevent it (dilute, shieldsmash, etc) it's lame.

I don't consider hunger lame because food is easy to get + eat but I'm biased all to hell so take that as you will.

I don't think hunger is lame, and I never carry food around. And no taking OOC info IC folks!