Monk Grapples

by Nezha

Back to Combat Guide.

Nezha2007-11-08 17:52:16

Here is an example of a spar with a monk.. i cant remember how many times ive died to this pattern..
i cant figure out how to solve it.. can someone help me?


QUOTE
You create an illusory phantom and send it into the mind of Glauco.
3360h, 5966m, 5479e, 5p sSixkdb-

Note: I attack and im at full health

Glauco leaps into the air and kicks out at you, but falls short and misses.
Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Drawing back his right fist, Glauco punches you in the head.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 5p sSixkdb-
You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 5p sSikdb-

Note: the steel grip comes

You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your head.
The deep damage in your head completely heals.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSikdb-

You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdb-

Glauco swiftly grabs you and hurls you forcefully to the ground.
Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head.
2675h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-
stand check
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-

You carefully writhe out of Glauco's grapple, escaping his grasp.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-

Note: another steel grip comes but i writhe out

You are recovering equilibrium and cannot move yet.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-

Note: im still unbalanced.. shizz

Glauco eats a sprig of chervil.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-

Glauco screams out in pain as a phantom rakes his skin with its sharp claws.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdbp-

You have recovered equilibrium.
2832h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head.
2250h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
2250h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
2250h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-

You have recovered balance on all limbs.
Glauco swiftly grabs you and hurls you forcefully to the ground.
Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

Note: ok, i should have attacked in this time.. or so i thought..

You may drink another health, mana, or bromide potion.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

You carefully writhe out of Glauco's grapple, escaping his grasp.

Note: and I writhe out but..

1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
StunTrigger ..0
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
Stun check
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
Stun check
You are too stunned to be able to do anything.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
Stun check

You are no longer stunned.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You stand up and stretch your arms out wide.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdb-
You stand straight up.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdb-
You cease parrying.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdb-
You adjust your attention spent parrying your head.
1554h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdb-

Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head, sending you reeling.
805h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

Note: but right after stun is that frigging grapple again

stand check
You remove 1 sparkleberry, bringing the total in the Rift to 430.
805h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You eat a sparkleberry.
You feel your health, mana and ego replenished.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-
You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-

Glauco eats a sprig of chervil.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-

Glauco takes a drink from a coral vial.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
1119h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-

Glauco swiftly grabs you and hurls you forcefully to the ground.
Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSikdbp-

You have recovered balance on all limbs.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

Blood trickles out of the corners of Glauco's eyes.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p esSixkdbp-

You are no longer stunned.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-

You carefully writhe out of Glauco's grapple, escaping his grasp.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-

Note: getting tired of this frigging stun

You must first raise yourself from the floor and stand up.
246h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-
You stand up and stretch your arms out wide.
403h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-
You stand straight up.
403h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-

Note: Aha! at last can attack again

You cease parrying.
403h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-
You adjust your attention spent parrying your head.
403h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-
You take a drink from a ruby vial.
The potion heals and soothes you.
979h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-

Glauco eats a wormwood stem.
979h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-

Glauco firmly holds you in place with an iron-strong grip.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head, sending you reeling.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-
stand check
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-
You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSikdbp-
You are grappled by Glauco. You must writhe to escape.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSikdbp-

Note: eep! no..

You have recovered balance on all limbs.
59h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-

You carefully writhe out of Glauco's grapple, escaping his grasp.
216h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdbp-
You stand up and stretch your arms out wide.
216h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-
You cease parrying.
216h, 5966m, 5479e, 7p esSixkdb-

Glauco screams out in pain as a phantom rakes his skin with its sharp claws.
Glauco swings his leg high into the air at your head, sending you reeling.
You collapse to the ground and die as your body is no longer able to take the punishment.
You have been slain by Glauco.
You come back into focus as the blur illusion vanishes.
You become visible once more.



1. I could have attacked here and there.. but the screen was scrolling fast.. and also the time frame is so low..
perhaps i can press the attack button and mash it until something goes thru.. but somehow, i dont think i will

2. Well anyway, any ideas on how to counter this thing? other than read faster..

*sigh*

i cant find a way to counter it really.. trying to attack in those small 'windows' is really hard.. its not like with fighters and mages at least i get a bigger chance somewhere..

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note:: I tested again and it seems psionics can go thru in this window

QUOTE
You begin to struggle free of your entanglement.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 5p sSikdb-

You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3206h, 5966m, 5479e, 6p sSixkdb-

--- HERE ----
** balance recovered but still grappled -- but psionics can go thru here ***



Arak2007-11-08 18:19:07
I'm not sure whether to recommend a smaller race for quicker writhes or a larger race for less stun. Your best bet, I think, is to change to a class with acrobatics so you have contortion. Other than that, um, I guess the whole spamming idea works.

Also, was there some reason why you stopped sipping health? I'll guess it was because of stun or something, in which case you should have your sipping script fire whenever you become unstunned, just in case. You could have had two, maybe three more chances to spam attacks if you'd kept up your healing.

One interesting point is that Glauco doesn't appear to have used any razing techniques, so just spamming shield would probably have shut down his combo.
Daganev2007-11-08 18:33:48
QUOTE(Arak @ Nov 8 2007, 10:19 AM) 456934
I'm not sure whether to recommend a smaller race for quicker writhes or a larger race for less stun. Your best bet, I think, is to change to a class with acrobatics so you have contortion.


umm, advise like that should NEVER be necessary.
Unknown2007-11-08 19:35:04
to stunned/writhed to attack prolly to stuned to shield..
Murphy2007-11-09 00:25:55
Can you stance while grappled? If so, you should've been stancing your head instead of parrying it against a monk not using weapons
Nezha2007-11-09 01:09:15
I did try to stance head once.. what happened was he just broke my legs.. this spar happned after that.. i stanced legs so it cant be broken.. and he hit the head..

and the stuns are a big part of the problem why im not sipping and stuff.. :<

and also --why is parry not effective against fist again? people tell me its because of balance. but using fists, which are faster than staffs and can cause stun compensates more than enough for the loss of the ability to use poisons that i think parry should be allowed.. -- i wonder what was the reason.. some weakness in it im not seeing?
Eldanien2007-11-09 01:54:29
Cannot stance while grappled.

Something to consider, which is a Celest-only maneuver, is to pray to Shakiniel. Can't do it while stunned and grappled, but you can do it while prone. In situations like this, they'll also be looking to break your legs to keep you down on the ground, so the damage is higher. Doing this will disrupt the kata unless by some crazy random luck they opt for a tahtai form right then - something they had to decide to use when they started the entire kata sequence.

As a telekinetic, you should also be tripping them. You can't do this while prone, but just spamming trip along with every other part of your offense means they'll never get past the first, possibly second form. They'll have to start their kata over, which results in that initial delay between first and second form. Acrobat monks can (mostly) avoid this with Balancing, but that's a very draining defense. They're in kata, you trip them, they can't stand because of being off balance during Kata and springup tends to be impossible as well. So as soon as their next form comes up while they're on the ground, the kata is ended.

I'm afraid I don't know the nuances of Aquamancer offense so I can't really give you much more advice. But... focus on these things: Once they start a kata, they're committed to whatever attack sequence they chose when the kata began or else have to break kata, which takes a moment. The delay between first and second form is noticeably longer than the rest. The more you can force them to go through that longer balance, the more you're thinning out their offense.

Regarding why parry doesn't work against unarmed attacks... I really don't know why. I assume, like I mentioned to you, it was a balance decision. Logically, one would think you could use a shield or a weapon or even bare hands to parry an unarmed strike. But you'd also think a wooden tahto would go through an aura of weapon rebounding (faeleaf Herbs description: repels metals). Or that you couldn't tumble under a wall. Or.... In any case, I think it's the Envoys and Admins who would have to answer this question.
Daganev2007-11-09 01:56:27
Is walking out of the room an option?
Eldanien2007-11-09 02:10:52
Not while nearly permanently proned and grappled. I think his question revolves around avoiding this situation, and getting out once in it.
Unknown2007-11-10 11:30:51
Nerfplz.
PPK/Grapplewhore is ridiculous.

The fact that monks will choose their basic PPK over their specialization is a definite sign that something is wrong.
Simimi2007-11-10 11:38:13
Yea it is... I should have transed something else besides Tahtetso...
Shiri2007-11-10 11:45:39
You still need trans tahtetso/shofangi for the ka, ironically.
Unknown2007-11-10 12:06:28
My advice to Shofangi/Tahtetso that are always 'BAAAAW, SHOFANGI/TAHTETSO IS UNDERPOWERED' is this:
YOU designed shofangi/tahtetso, no one else. Those skillsets are probably fine, but because people want to use an overpowered skill instead of actually practicing with their specialization, of COURSE the specialization is going to look ridiculously crappy.
Imagine if Bards had gotten Glamours from the get-go. People would go into a screaming nerf-rage. But of course, because Bards were sucky from the get go, and now they have a (very near) overpowered groups of skills, they don't look so bad.

Over/underpoweredness is relative, and depends on psychology as much as game mechanic.
Yrael2007-11-10 12:06:56
Things with the entangling capability of a nihilist and the stunning ability of a hammer bonecrusher make Yrael a sad panda.

But of course, they're perfectly balanced.
Shiri2007-11-10 12:17:14
QUOTE(Inky @ Nov 10 2007, 12:06 PM) 457353
My advice to Shofangi/Tahtetso that are always 'BAAAAW, SHOFANGI/TAHTETSO IS UNDERPOWERED' is this:
YOU designed shofangi/tahtetso, no one else. Those skillsets are probably fine, but because people want to use an overpowered skill instead of actually practicing with their specialization, of COURSE the specialization is going to look ridiculously crappy.
Imagine if Bards had gotten Glamours from the get-go. People would go into a screaming nerf-rage. But of course, because Bards were sucky from the get go, and now they have a (very near) overpowered groups of skills, they don't look so bad.

Over/underpoweredness is relative, and depends on psychology as much as game mechanic.


That's entirely unfair.

Firstly, we didn't actually design it. We just gave out ideas. Secondly, we didn't know how monks were going to work when we tried to make Shofangi, so we just threw out random ideas like the cuttongue skill we ended up with. We had no idea of how to build synergy into it. Thirdly, the main reason tahtetso is underpowered is that vibes don't really work that well. It's not necessarily an issue with the whole set.

It doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about though, so here's the facts: Shofangi/Tahtetso are underpowered. There are a couple of abusive skills that are being fixed, but the envoy process is ridiculously slow. People saying they're fundamentally overpowered are ridiculous. Of course they're overpowered if they have old breaknose bugged stun and slightly broken (not even that hard to avoid! but still annoying) leg grapples EDIT: and crunch, which is unhealthy for combat but no one even bothers using it. But it's not like the people complaining (and worse, blaming it on us) have any idea what the skillsets actually contain, so I guess that's to be expected.

EDIT: Also, that's not advice, Incabulos, that's just an attempt to be pithy. Different things, heh.
Unknown2007-11-10 12:40:50
My point is so ridiculously and painfully obvious that I'm surprised you didn't catch it.

Non-monks are going to cry 'overpowered' and monks are going to cry 'underpowered/broken'...
BUT BOTH SIDES ARE WRONG.

Monks are broken, and instead of saying 'we're broken and underpowered, fix it please', you're using 'monks are broken' as justification to use something you KNOW is overpowered.
Consequently, non-monks are going to want a nerf, and monks are going to want a fix, and neither is going to get done quickly, because of both the long envoy process and the conflicting opinions (most of which are borne out of dishonesty or ignorance). Perhaps if Shofangi/Tahtetso would use their underpowered skillsets in order to demonstrate the flaws instead of whoring overpowered ones, then they'd get some sympathy/attention.

Secondly: the admin, as much as I can see their reasoning, have made a horrible mistake.
They've repeated the bard catastrophy, but wasted even more time doing it.
At least with bards, it was the overwhelming consensus that they were broken and the Admin could go about fixing them straight away. Already, monks have been out for a few months, people are STILL complaining about them being broken or overpowered (despite the loooong Committee process), and there's still 2 more monk guilds to go (including ANOTHER secondary skillset).

TL;DR version: the admin fscked up (though I don't blame them) and now we have Bards v2.
Rodngar2007-11-10 14:18:42
I want to know what Crunch does, first off. It sounds painful.

Second off, I will admit that there are underpowered and overpowered functions of Monks (karma difference mantra, PPK/grapple whoring for permanent disability to name two). They have a very powerful offense with just Kata skills - though they need ka weight from transcendent Tahtetso and Shofangi. The offense sort of cuts short of that, however - Tahtetso has some dangerous stuff for the first few skill ranks, but when you start hitting the vibration stuff, you likely will start regretting it like I did. There's only a few skills beyond.. Bairakobo (a follow up to Bairak, a head grapple) that are honestly appealing. I can't speak for Shofangi, but I'm sure it's the same way. I find that I'm told more and more often that Kata skills will prove more of an effective offense than Tahtetso itself - and that is a tremendous problem, in my eyes. A specialization should be special and what puts Monks from certain orgs apart. However, it feels like we're just going to see all four Monks using Kata and their other skills sparingly, at this stage. I can only hope the Glomdoring Monks start a new trend in this case - and that we can fix up Tahtetso and Shofangi after Magnagora gets their guild.

TL;DR Our specializations don't have the same strength that Kata promises when it comes to PK and (probably) bashing. Kata skills are inherently more attractive to use based on their relative strength weighed against their specialization skills - because honestly, who wants to lose a fight to prove they're underpowered more than overpowered?
Shiri2007-11-10 14:30:20
Crunch is where you slam their face into your knee over and over until they die. It's pretty hilarious, and overpowered in the same sense as dreamweaving sleep and hunger (you run away and wait or you just lose) but kind of impractical to use unless you're specifically out to be lame, so no one really does.

The messages are freakin' awesome though.

And of course we're not going to use our underpowered skills, what good is that going to do? It won't make upgrading them any easier...and we are slating the overpowered bits for nerfs ALREADY.
Rodngar2007-11-10 15:24:09
QUOTE(Shiri @ Nov 10 2007, 09:30 AM) 457380
Crunch


Best. Skill. Ever.
Genos2007-11-10 15:55:22
I thought they would have come up with a more interesting instakill name than Crunch... unsure.gif