Quite so.

hehe, I wanna give this to Nejii every time he says something is OP on the monk devel team for the other monks ....

edit- and yeah Nejii I still ya

I dont get it

I just presented here a log in which i was almost perma-stun/prone/grappled the entire time and died within 15 sec without me not being able to do anything about it and people say monks are underpowered?

I dont know whether to feel sad or my intelligence insulted..

But alright, ill give people the benefit of doubt and take the mindset of -- perhaps i just dont know something most dont.. if so, all those people that feels monks are underpowered and/or monk experts -- stand by the courage of your conviction and please TELL ME HOW TO COUNTER AND/OR GET OUT OF THIS FRGGING STUN AND GRAPPLE WHORE!!!!!

Otherwise -- can you please stop telling me your weak. its ridicoulus..

I transed combat/resilience and its still not enough.. i even got that frigging tipheret so i can get out of the grapples -- only to find out that tipheret is bugged and dont work as it should*

You know this situation is really, really bad.. i dont even spar monks anymore.. whats the point.. im in the verge of winning and they just do this sequence and boom! its over.. or depending on whether the monk is feeling particularly vicious.. initiate this at the start of the spar and just stomp all over me..

To put this in another perspective --

I was thinking of becoming a pureblade, and was investigating the costs of artifacts.. ive fought against high level figthers and most of them have arties. ive won a few, lost a alot.. but they all tell me that to compete in the very high levels... you really need the artifacts.. but even with the artifacts.. i didnt feel as if i was not given my chance. i got my attacks in.. and i lost simply because the particular warrior was just more skilfull than i was..

But its made me sad still as a midbie monk with a battered tahtoo staff can kill me without much effort.. there is not even a skill involve in it anymore.. no strategy on how to remove parry.. no meticulous preparation of poisons.. just grapple10x and get the kill...

So please, help me? can someone tell me that something that im missing..

*lowmagic users, i think summer is also supposed to work against grapples. you might want to verify this too. the oneiroi told me tipheret should definitely work against grapples.. and i tested three times against two different monks and it didnt work.. but filed a bug now..

Sigh.

Monks are underpowered apart from the ridiculous stun etc. BS and a couple other issues. This is why people are saying monks are underpowered.

The ridiculous stun etc. BS and a couple other issues are being fixed in envoys (ostensibly) and monk dev forums.

This is not that hard. Please, work with me here.

While monks are still being rolled out, don't expect many changes till we get the development done. There is exciting new stuff to come still, and no doubt with it changes.

In short, quit your bitching till we're done.

Nejii and others in the monk development group had plenty of reason to bitch about some of the overpowered things suggested lately.

Im not bitchin.. im asking for help..

but from the answers ive got is -- and let me confirm this..

at this point in time, there is no counter for such a thing? no known measure to remedy this as-is? no spells, skill or some such that will allow me to not get defeated in such a manner? (except from becoming a titan and changing your size to 1 that is)

if this was said at the start, instead of going of tangent and saying monks are underpowered.. etc.. etc.. then thing would have been much much clearer

and oh, This is honest to goodness question.. because i really want an honest answer.. so i can at least have some justification on stopping spars with monks and not be called a coward because of it..

That's not really acceptable unless monks are not allowed to fight until you're done.

I was just going to say the same thing.

Monks should stop any pvp outside the arena until the are done I guess

You are correct. There is nothing in your power to stop that once it starts, aside from actually getting a hindering attack off in those tiny windows. If it makes you feel any better, that string requires a bit of luck on the monk's part. They can't just hit F3 and own your face like that.

As an aside, monk envoys make me sad. "I don't want to fix my overpowered class, I want to fix my underpowered guild!" I mean, clearly, it's not fair that druids' most powerful skills are the shared ones. Crow and Hart should both get upgrades so that they're better than Druidry. That way, we can justify using our unique skills.

I stopped sparring with monks a long time ago. That's the only solution, really.

Uhh, yeah it is acceptable because of certain things that are being worked on. I won't say any more than that but certainly you can't expect everything to happen instantly. We are aware of the problems, and they are being looked into.

The DMP report by the way (someone else mentioned it) looks at writhing/size too.

Be reasonable Kromsh. You can't just say MONKS ARE BROKEN and poof the envoys/admin fix it. Monks need some tweaking so they can't keep you perma stunned/off balance/grappled, yes. Trust me I know this. Alot of people know this. But for the most part...monks are fine. Alianna...a champ..did 400 in a combo to me. Given, I'm kephera...but still, they aren't all that scary when they don't use the lame tactics. Well minus the artied demigod ones...but that goes for any artied demigod.

edit: also...my perspective is slightly more optimistic because I can laugh at grapples. Yay telepathy.

If you don't tell people that these things are being fixed then, for all they know, you could be perfectly happy with the way things work and their "bitching" would still be quite valid. People abusing said cheap tactics until they are fixed doesn't help matters, either. Is Akhchukrakoosh even nerfed yet?

In short, quit being so hard on the non-insiders complaining about OP monks.

Don't make me drop choke on you.

You can't choke?

Looked at AB MOON lately?

In groups, I'm going to use ppk. Face it, it's strong and way more useful compared to the other moves I've got.

Solo, I've been working on avoiding it. If anything I'm trying the bleeding route with mainly shofa (which doesn't work that well, sadly).

You're not nerfing monks- you're nerfing things like Hold. Perhaps starkick and Bomolini. You don't nerf the whole group because Glauco whored a skill that can prone/stun while constantly grappling you. Just as well, Monk attacks are significantly stronger when the target is prone.

Concerning Hold- it needs to be nerfed. It has a 150 ka cost for an entanglement effect very similar to web. However, you can't use Snap while the person's held. You need to KA LOCK them to Snap and/or Throw, which is 200 ka, and doesn't have the same entanglement penalties. That bit, there, is pretty screwed up.

Anyways, concerning FIXING all this:

The process of fixing it all is slow. And, personally, I'm bloody TIRED of spending 75% of my envoy slots since becoming Shofangi Envoy on fixing the Monk class in general instead of trying to get Shofangi up to par. Shofangi came first- it was just a jumble of what the brainstormers though was 'cool' for a monk to see, and it turned out fairly badly.

To top things off, the Envoys need to turn in their DMP report (which examines the changes to stun, writhing, etc. in EVERY SKILL. It's been taking us ages) before the October report goes in along with its changes. And then, after that, the November report (which -should- have the nerfs to Hold, Bomolini, Starkick, etc. on it. No promises- I'm not envoying those currently).

That, and iirc (rumour!) the Monk Committee is looking into altering the stat impacts on weapons. By that, I mean making them actually useful in comparision to ppk. And don't give me 'they're fine as is' crap, because that's just Tahtetso their double hemi/brain scramble etc.

After that, Tahtetso vibrations need to be fixed to not be so tedious. And even after that, Shofangi needs to be up to par in a similar vibration system (which personally irks me since I'm probably going to hate that sort of thing, but whatever). We've got a lot on our plate as is. I'm not saying 'we're not bieng nerfed until we're being improved', but, seriously, give us a break. Go monk yourself for an 'insta win' button as certain people have been calling it or just..bear with it!

(Disclaimer: I just got back from Red Lobster, sue me, I'm probably not 100% coherent right now. Mmm, shrimp.)

Im happy things are being fixed.. all i ever wanted was something reasonable. you know, not for battles to be like this..

but hmmm.. if the october changes are full, and if for november none is envoying this.. then perhaps december and january would be the best guestimate of when this will be fixed? ohhh.. thats a long of time.. hehe

but actually, being a programmer myself.. fixing bugs are really hard.. i understand if it takes time.. it once took me two months to hunt down a single bug

having said that.. i hope this gets fixed soon.. so i can go back to sparring and testing my battle systems.. avoiding spars with monk is really not a viable option as when the glom/mag monks comes out.. im sure that will bring on interesting times.. have to prepare now while there is a chance..

Just for information -- pentagram does not work either




To Bianca: You said you laugh at grapples? with telepathy?

Im sooo gonna get telepathy now.. but howd you do it i wonder.. tell me? hehe..