Unknown2007-12-05 00:34:16
QUOTE(Eldanien @ Dec 4 2007, 05:34 PM) 462306
Well worth the 800cr, now. It's a 'I get to hit you once for free' card, once the masks become common enough. You can still script around it by working your way down a list when attacked.
consider soandsowithamask
consider soandso2withamask
consider soandso3withamask
...
But still, combined with a gem of cloaking, some creative genderbending/describe self, changeself, impersonate and other tricks, this is nice.
On that note, an artifact that grants changeself might see interest from those unable to use illusions in conjunction with the mask. Or perhaps a Greater Mask, that allows changeself with the mask effects.
consider soandsowithamask
consider soandso2withamask
consider soandso3withamask
...
But still, combined with a gem of cloaking, some creative genderbending/describe self, changeself, impersonate and other tricks, this is nice.
On that note, an artifact that grants changeself might see interest from those unable to use illusions in conjunction with the mask. Or perhaps a Greater Mask, that allows changeself with the mask effects.
I was actually pondering this the other day, before it was ever mentioned.
I was thinking it could be called a "Cameo of Illusions", which allows you to use the changeself ability to seem to be another race.
Tirenae2007-12-05 02:51:41
Hello,
I am one of the owners of an artifact mask in Imp. Most of them have gone for less than the one for sale here. However, with the changes made now, it actually is reasonable to ask the increase in price.
The mask in imp:
- Can be secured at any time. It always uses balance, but it does not require it
- Makes you show up as a masked man. It does NOT hide wielded.
- You are a masked man for movement, emotes, says, and anything that is non-aggressive.
- The mask drops _immediately before_ the aggressive action automatically. For instance, if you KICK BOB, it will drop the line before you kick.
- The mask does not confuse guards
- The mask DOES NOT replace you on qw, or who, or clans, or cwho.
- The mask DOES replace you on scan, mindscan, or any other "area" abilities that sweep an area.
- You can not target a "masked man" directly, unless you know who they are.
- Mutual allies can see who you are, when they look. They can not in any other fashion.
- You are masked on alertness.
Basically, it obfuscates rather well, especially combined with a gem, but the tactical use can be limited. The weapons not being hidden there is much less dangerous than it is here, however, since wielded weapons are generally not quite so obvious as to where they came from. There's plenty of reasons to wield weapons as just about anything there, and even if you're wielding two battleaxes, it doesn't mean you're on any specific side.
This post is intended only to provide information. I'm not making any comments on exactly what the newly offered artifact should or should not do.
EDIT: Yes, this is the ARTIFACT mask there, not the IDRASI mask. They have some subtle differences.
I am one of the owners of an artifact mask in Imp. Most of them have gone for less than the one for sale here. However, with the changes made now, it actually is reasonable to ask the increase in price.
The mask in imp:
- Can be secured at any time. It always uses balance, but it does not require it
- Makes you show up as a masked man. It does NOT hide wielded.
- You are a masked man for movement, emotes, says, and anything that is non-aggressive.
- The mask drops _immediately before_ the aggressive action automatically. For instance, if you KICK BOB, it will drop the line before you kick.
- The mask does not confuse guards
- The mask DOES NOT replace you on qw, or who, or clans, or cwho.
- The mask DOES replace you on scan, mindscan, or any other "area" abilities that sweep an area.
- You can not target a "masked man" directly, unless you know who they are.
- Mutual allies can see who you are, when they look. They can not in any other fashion.
- You are masked on alertness.
Basically, it obfuscates rather well, especially combined with a gem, but the tactical use can be limited. The weapons not being hidden there is much less dangerous than it is here, however, since wielded weapons are generally not quite so obvious as to where they came from. There's plenty of reasons to wield weapons as just about anything there, and even if you're wielding two battleaxes, it doesn't mean you're on any specific side.
This post is intended only to provide information. I'm not making any comments on exactly what the newly offered artifact should or should not do.
EDIT: Yes, this is the ARTIFACT mask there, not the IDRASI mask. They have some subtle differences.
Tirenae2007-12-05 03:02:21
As a side note, the masks there are worth it because it makes you appear like every Idrasi on the planet- so you have a ready-made concealment pool, so to speak.
You can't just check everyone known to have it, because a huge list of people can do it without artifacts.
This lack of actual obfuscation ability does somewhat hinder its uptake. I'd almost suggest tiering the prices- charging less, at first, and increasing it as time goes on. The more that exist, the more its worth- because people will become less and less sure just who the masked loboshigaru is.
When there's only 3 of them in existence, it's pretty easy to guess.
You can't just check everyone known to have it, because a huge list of people can do it without artifacts.
This lack of actual obfuscation ability does somewhat hinder its uptake. I'd almost suggest tiering the prices- charging less, at first, and increasing it as time goes on. The more that exist, the more its worth- because people will become less and less sure just who the masked loboshigaru is.
When there's only 3 of them in existence, it's pretty easy to guess.
Aison2007-12-05 07:31:06
QUOTE(S.A.W. @ Dec 4 2007, 02:45 PM) 462313
Also a Scented Bauble would be a nice artifact, to protect from scent. Or maybe a Pendant of Instability, that blocks Scent and Mindsense? Cause as it is, Kephera, Illithoids, Psions, and AnyoneWithTotems can pretty much bypass the mask completely if they've got a sharp eye.
There will always be some risk to buying an artifact like the mask. I don't think it should block any ability to find someone (scent, scry, sense, etc). If it does get upgraded to that, I would expect it to block all abilities, not just a select few, and for the price to be bumped up to 2000 credits or more. That's just my two cents, though.
Moral of the story: if you find yourself purchasing a mask, make sure not a lot of people know you have one. And preferrably have a gem and trans discernment to sense anyone who may be trying to sense you.
Unknown2007-12-05 13:30:56
QUOTE(Aison @ Dec 4 2007, 11:31 PM) 462427
There will always be some risk to buying an artifact like the mask. I don't think it should block any ability to find someone (scent, scry, sense, etc). If it does get upgraded to that, I would expect it to block all abilities, not just a select few, and for the price to be bumped up to 2000 credits or more. That's just my two cents, though.
Moral of the story: if you find yourself purchasing a mask, make sure not a lot of people know you have one. And preferrably have a gem and trans discernment to sense anyone who may be trying to sense you.
Moral of the story: if you find yourself purchasing a mask, make sure not a lot of people know you have one. And preferrably have a gem and trans discernment to sense anyone who may be trying to sense you.
I didn't suggest the Mask be upgraded to do that though. I suggested a whole other artifact be created to do it, which is different. An artifact to block Scent and Scan and Mindsense and stuff would be useful to a lot of people beyond those who own masks.
Xenthos2007-12-05 15:13:35
QUOTE(S.A.W. @ Dec 5 2007, 08:30 AM) 462460
I didn't suggest the Mask be upgraded to do that though. I suggested a whole other artifact be created to do it, which is different. An artifact to block Scent and Scan and Mindsense and stuff would be useful to a lot of people beyond those who own masks.
It would also be far more destructive than beneficial, I feel. Scent and scan are already defeatable by using a combination of indoors and skunk scent, which requires a little thought. Mindsense is rather more limited than scent/scan, being a racial advantage on races that aren't, in the end, all that common. Unless you're going to make artifacts that let you pierce the thing, at which point you've just created another large credit sink with no real purpose.
Eldanien2007-12-05 23:47:25
It also creates a situation where you don't spend 2000cr for a Veil, you spend 2500cr on a Gem, Mask and insert-other-artifacts for similar effect.