Having an attack that causes two effects - damage and wounding - that are primarily cured by one curative is a little.. well, imbalanced, especially when both can lead to death. Massive amounts of damage + wounding? What warrants that at all? Should my minorsecond do head wounding too? It does, afterall, make the eyes bleed. Maybe it'll make their head explode if the wounds are too great? There, now it's balanced. It should be either wounds or damage, not both in high amounts.

I'm not sure what you are smoking, Zacc, but I want some.

I totally and 100% believe Warriors have scaling issues. Runed warriors and champ helms are RIDICULOUS. Normal warriors? No, they are fine. If you can't tank one, you are doing something wrong.

A non tri trans FAELING bard complained about damage? 337th ranked in xp? What level are you...70? Well no kidding. Get illusory self, get triple flash, get transfix, THEN you can talk. I'm a Tri trans druid...more than tri trans, and I have to dance and run around (runed) warriors to even have a chance...and let me tell you, druid is far less tanky than bard. Bard..i think..has THE best damage per scond output in the game. Even with the nerf they are damage beasts. The bashing is easily one of the best. Daedalion, Estwald, Arawaen. All bards. All run with the big boys...including warriors. Watch your WOUNDS, learn when you are about to be pinlegged or tendonded. If you are? Move. If you do? Tumble. Druids, Mages, and Bards...not so much the 3rd..since they can hinder and dodge like crazy...aren't made to go toe to toe with warriors.

Yes warriors with 9k health are hard to kill. Duh. I don't realy know how to respond to that. 9k is alot. A heck of a lot. Good thing there are very few with that much health running around. Did you expect them to just fall over dead because for the sake of balance your damage magically shoots up to 5k?

No. Just no.

edit: and no, your song shouldn't do wounds. If you can't figure out a class that almost everyone has some difficulty beating...that's all you.

guardians/wiccans and bards to an extent are fairly power hungry. I mean if a warrior just double escozul they'd win by attrition agaist those types. Or at the very least they'd default to a tie since those classes require power to win. Minus maybe a soulless/blackout.

Warriors are equally power hungry. If someone has their system in order, you will take a long long time to beat someone.

As for Zacc? Not for a long time have i seen such epic failure in regards to lusternian combat. Yours is a classic case of 'boohoo i can't be bothered to learn 2 play and those big bad warriors should be nerfed because they own me'

I'll give you a few points of advice, feel free to ignore them and stay on the QQtrain.

1. Warriors are affected by stance parry and miss as well as weapons rebounding. Bards aren't, they get earwort sure, but it's better to have them put up earwort so you can stun them
2. Don't bitch because someone else has trans skills and you don't. Warriors need to really trans combat to be effective, which is a 4th skillset.
3. This isn't wow. A lvl 70 warrior with arties, a system and skills is going to beat people up to and including demigod. I beat demigods when they first came out, and i was lvl 75. Lusternia doesn't require an uber-high level to compete. If you are good, you will be a big threat so long as you have a medium of Hp/mana (IE lvl 80 which isn't hard to get) If you don't want to trans your skills, then take the beating like a man, because those people have paid money/put in excessive time & effort in order to get their characters to where they are
4. Stupidity is caused by the fractureskull affliction, cured by mending to head. Excessive head wounds does NOT give you permastupidity
5. Learn the game. The reason warriors aren't being nerfed is because the envoys don't deem it necessary to do so, and i guarantee you the envoys know more than you do about the game and class balance.

EDIT: Language and personal attacks.

Let's just all ignore Zacc because he clearly has no clue what he's talking about. kk?

I think the simplest answer to the warrior balance problem is just to remove the artifacts entirely and balance to unartied warriors, as the others were saying. Unfortunately that doesn't seem likely to happen, given as I imagine warrior greatrunes are some of the most popular artifacts. Maybe they could just reduce the effect a bit? But while the artifacts exist, warriors can't be perfectly balanced, and they can't realistically be as powerful as the other classes without artifacts because then they'll be leaps and bounds ahead of the other classes WITH artifacts.

Zacc, your problems start with you. You lack the levels, the skills, and the personal ability to compete at the moment. What you seem to be asking of the Admin is for them to make up for all of your deficiencies by balancing the game around people who are unwilling to put in the time, effort and/or money to do well. That to me seems to be pretty backwards thinking.

Also, you are in one of the best archetypes to deal with warriors. You have abilities that can easily frustrate a warrior; all you have to do is acquire them and learn how to use them. With all that acrobatics and glamours provide in the way of hindering abilities, your class is one of the ones that really can stand toe to toe with a warrior and come out on top. Though, you have to possess the skills and know how to use them to succeed.

oi who editied my post? I thought it was reasonable in regards to personal attacks. I didn't attack him, i just attacked everything about him in regards to lusternia

I hated sparing bards as a Tae'dae. Their afflictions would always push me off equi or balance, inbetween some stun...etc.

And I still think, transforming the runes to a rune attachable to a helm and providing the weapons wielded at the moment with a boost seems the best variant. I might be making a wild guess, but I think it probably would increase sales too, since it's not as likely that people will lose a third of their credits when they switch speciality.

Of course, on the other hand, warriors who already have two artierunes and all would probably be really annoyed. (And rightly so.)

There is no problem with my lack of levels and skills (actually, there is, compared to standards of the envoys (highly leveled, highly trained payers)) Why is the game focused on those people? It's ridiculous. At level 70, I should be on par with any other class of like level. That's what balance is. Balance is not everyone getting level 100 and then having the system tailored around them. Balance is not everyone getting omni/whatever transed and the system being tailored around only them. A like leveled warrior with the same amount of lessons invested would definitely dominate. Why? Is it, once again, the reliance of systems or is it because their skills are incredibly unbalanced when compared to like-lessoned bard skills? I'm thinking the unbalanced skills. Last log of illusory self I saw made it looked like it didn't work 100% of the time. I'll have to check that.

What makes this game unbalanced is that it's "balanced" on the high end of the spectrum. It's biased towards highly leveled, highly skilled characters. It does not take into regard the lower leveled/skilled ones. That's just utterly ridiculous and stupid. No wonder Lusternia's playerbase is so small.

And please keep in mind that I'm not talking about omni transed, high leveled classes. I'm talking about classes across the level and lesson board. Yes, someone with more invested lessons is going to be more powerful, but if the same amount of lessons and xp are there, there shouldn't be an imbalance, no matter where they fall (level 20 with 600 lessons should be just as effective as the other class at level 20 with 600 lessons, etc etc).

@Murphy: it takes far far far more investments to defend against a warrior than it does a bard. I could care less if others have transed skills. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about how the game is incredibly unbalanced unless you do have transed skills. If you did some reading, you'd know that that's what I've been saying. Level 80 is not medium. Level 80 is past 50%.. it's 80% to lvl 100. If that's medium for hp, there's another flaw in the game right there. By the way, I'm sure I spent plenty more hours on this character than some of those people who "have paid money/put in excessive time & effort in order to get their characters to where they are". So don't even bother including time in all of this. Excessive wounds makes it easier to re-afflict. Actually, I beg to differ about envoys. They all seem to be high level, multi transed players. And yet, somehow there is no balance in the game. Go figure. That says all it needs to say.

@Geb: same thing to you on the time, effort and money issue. I in no way expect to be comparable, not even with the best system (btw, quite a few combatants don't use a system they created themselves, go figure), to players of higher level and skill. That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for balance at SAME level, SAME lessons. A class's usefulness should not rely on being transed or highly skilled. Yes, being highly skilled is definitely a benefit and makes them even stronger, but until that point is reached, the class is almost useless (this doesn't apply to all classes as each as its own pros and cons in that regard). Once again, the game should not revolve around achieving high level and high skills to be of any use. And "lack" of levels? What, 74 is not a lack. Maybe I'm failing at my math or something, but 74 > 50 (50 is half). If 74 is a lack, then there's yet another problem with the game. Jesus christ, if the game is meant to be enjoyed (I'm sure we all agree that Lusternia is based around pvp conflict), they might as well hand out xp pills that give you 50 levels instantly, since everyone seems to believe that it's a game/admin requirement to be max leveled, max trained to be effective /at all/. Any level under 80 and you're still a novice. WTF is that? Brilliance at its best!

I'd also like to point out that if I transed every single skill availabe to me right now, I'd still be useless against warriors, especially if they hit over 1k a hit (no arties, no multi transed, no higher level). As it is, I'm lucky if I can recover 1k health with the combo of scrolls, health, and sparkleberry. And warriors hit faster than sparkleberry balance, go figure. That's not balanced. Hindering? Oh, sure, if I was near transed. Bard hindering doesn't come into play until being highly trained (I'd come up with a percentage, but I can't access the Scyring Pool right now.. some weird trojan keeps popping up- and I know it's not on my pc). But yeah, even if I had a great system, at current (lvl 74 faeling bard at medium amount of lessons invested, fighting a like leveled warrior with same amount of lessons) there's no way I could win.

And none of this confronts the issue of bashing. That's a whole different argument (actually, it's almost the same).

I think they also meant personal skill.

As in system? Oh sure, let me go purchase or download one of the other ones. Then I'll come back and start bitching again because it had no effect (there's only but so much that can be done offensively when you have a handful, literally, of attacks.. two of them are easily avoided because another skill of higher rank is required to strip that defense.. ironic, isn't it). As for curing, I already know I suck at that. I haven't bothered making a priority list for anything, so it's just cure as it's caught.. spam curing. The only thing I have going would probably be blanknote/chord and minorsecond at the moment (as I just pointed out, colourspray/burst requires a skill higher up in Glamours.. and mercilsanctus is utterly blah). There just aren't enough equal combat skills when compared to certain other classes.

But I know where this will go back to: "trans your skills." If transing is the holy grail, we might as well change it so that you can't even participate in combat until you trans. Oh wait, some classes really are useful before transing.. So much for that idea.

If your bashing sucks, change races. Problem solved. But you're complaining about the fundamentals of Lusternia's combat (decent level with at least a couple trans skills and some personal skill). It's a bitch, but it's how Lusternia makes money, really. If you don't like that, just play another game, because virtually everyone else (that's playing) seems to be fine with it. Or quit crying and actually work on your PvP ability, that works too.

From what I've seen, Bards are kind of the anti-warrior. o_O

No more cactus weed please.

warriors are a problem for me too because for example, ilyarin did over 2000 damage last time. A merian with a shade over 3000 health cant really take too much of that.. so what im doing now is trying to get health by bashing3x.. i bash when i wake.. bash at work.. bash when i come home from work.. kicks the dog and dont feed it cause im bashing.. slams phone on gf cause she wont leave me alone bashing.. forgets to eat cause im bashing.. and what am i doing here? i need to go.. i need to bash2x.. cause i need health.. cause i want to win against warriors..

so to zacc, maybe try to do the same.. while (1) {spar; bash} -- no other way around it really..

---
Now to the topic.. arent the dmp supposed to cover these kinda excessive damages? or if not then i want my staff to be 2000damage too, thank you.. and please include fries with that.. (and oh, btw: I wont complain if someone approves that.. nope. no objection from me..)

but, wait what is the real issue again? its was hijacked somewhere.. and im too lazy to go back to the thread.. *ponder*

Hey, Zacc... maybe you might try a warrior? Roll a Paladin or Serenguard and see how powerful you are?

They're a very complex class that doesn't have the instant win. Granted I have a rather lacking Paladin in most areas, including system. But even when I'm just hitting and they're just curing... everyone I've sparred so far, except for one guy who was using an alias system to cure, can easily out heal my damage forever. I can't even get to an amputate as a PB, because they can keep themselves from running into problems so easily.

Anyway, that's just a thought. Imo... warriors definitely take too much credits to get any good, but there's people that are the anti to that as well. I would have to pay a ton of money to get artied weapons, to get masterweapons at all, and that doesn't include my need for fieldplate and all the enchanted jewelry.

That's all just an idea, though, Zacc... it might help you understand a bit more where they're coming from.

What the heck. Zacc why are you posting about combat topics. Stop plz. Your making my eyes shrivel up. Specially with all the nonsense you are spewing.

Zacc, dear gods, you also play the archetype that requires the lowest lesson investment to get started in the game.

Stooooop iiiiiit.

Skill doesn't necessarily mean system. Sure the system helps (if I had a system I could probably win fights instead of getting killed by the simplest of afflictions) but there's also knowing your own skillsets and being able to take advantage of it against other skillsets.

And if combat were balanced around mid-tier fighters, you'd have some high tier fighter come and deal afflictions and damage at insane speeds. You'd still be complaining then.

All of the above are poisons. Do you then also have a problem with doubledagger telekinetics? Monks with envenomed weapons? How about bard colourburst+maelstrom which has thrown 3k damage plus 6 afflicts? I don't hear you commenting about bards throwing 2k+ damage in single hits, yet that seems to be your entire basis of argument against warriors.

With regards to hitting through rebounding, if I'm paying 4 power for a round of attacks, you're damn right I'm going to expect it to deal extra wounds and go through certain defenses. 2-handed Cleave is another option that doesn't cost power but the strike is significantly weaker than the unmodified strike (roughly 1/2 if my calculations are correct which they may not be. Someone else can verify this), and it's not even an option to 1-handers. You're complaining that warriors have 9k health and that class x ought to be weak against class y? Sure, but that involves surge, which is constant mana/willpower drain AND cuts maxmana by 1/3. Guardians and wiccans, with their half-mana kills, lol all over the place at a surged warrior, which is why the intelligent warrior will NOT surge when fighting one of those classes. Tired of dealing with wounds? Suck it up. Warrior afflictions are all 100% random, and we don't even have a guarantee of landing one at all. Bards get guaranteed afflict with colourburst, even if it is random. Psions, hexen, tarot, etc all throw guaranteed afflicts with 100% chance of landing, but this is balanced by not dealing damage with those particular attacks. Even worse is acrobatics dodging combined with parry and stancing. Warriors have to get around all of that in order to land a hit, so I would certainly hope that when they finally do, said hit is worth it.

Complaining that warriors can kill too quickly? It took both me (level 84), Nemerle (level unknown) and Geb (freaking huge) a VERY long time just to beat down on Thoros (demigod, also pretty damn huge) and Shikha (also unknown).

My advice? Check all the skill lists carefully. Try asking your champion for combat advice. No system? Some people fight fine like that. They're just really fast with the aliases. No priority list? That's your own problem, so don't complain that combat is imbalanced for your laziness. If you're gonna complain about not being able to PvP despite a lack of skill in your primary attack skillsets, that is your own problem, not ours, and not the admins. Get off your posterior and do something about it rather than demand everyone who owns you be nerfed.