Oh yeah! I had to think a minute, but I remember now

It would have been if the jump from titan to demigod wasn't expanded by so much (if this goes by what the other IRE games have). Because of Lusty's gap from 99 to 100, it would be a circle or two down.

On Aetolia, I have a level 80.5 - 8% of raw xp to level 99.

The good thing is that raw xp per hour increases as level increases because you're getting more xp per mob (harder mobs) and more criticals (mobs die fast).

Actually, I think Zacc makes some excellent points. Maybe that's why I found the envoy system so incredibly frustrating, because I was in the minority of opinions on balance. Even though you might disagree with the finer points of his suggestions, surely you can appreciate there is some very apparent sense to what he is saying.


I agree here. Would it really be fair for a novice skill in one class to completely decimate most other classes, until transcendent abilities in other skillsets were able to counteract it? That's balanced at omnitrans, but it sure as hell doesn't seem fair to me. Yes, the skills at trans should be balanced, that's fine, but so should equivalent skills at master level, or inept, at least to some degree. The game doesn't start at omnitrans, and combat shouldn't be the exclusive domain of those who have finished learning everything. Obviously those with trans skills are going to have a big advantage over those without, but I don't think it is good game design to utterly ignore the effect on players who are still developing their appreciation of Lusternia.

This is not saying that an Expert-level combatant should be as capable of winning as a Trans-level combatant. That's clearly ridiculous. However, it doesn't mean that an Expert-level combatant can't be capable generally, at least of surviving against a Trans-level combatant for short periods, if not having much chance at gaining the upper hand. And similarly, a Expert-level combatant should be reasonably confident of being evenly matched against another Expert-level combatant of any class. The current balance paradigm ignores both of these situations completely. If you do not have transcendant skill, you can have no expectation of fairness - at least not as delivered from the envoy system.

Levels work similarly, a small reward is a good thing, and higher levels might overcome lesser skill. I don't really think there is too much of a problem in this regard, except at the super-high levels. And that's very difficult no matter what the setup might be.

I don't find this statement a silly thing to suggest. Idealistic, perhaps, but certainly not stupid.


Again, this makes a great deal of sense to me. I think this is very perceptive - archetypes need at least as many weaknesses as strengths, and it also promotes strategy and teamwork to overcome them. The answer to the problem of warriors not handling magic damage isn't necessarily to give them greater resistance, but to make sure that mages are at least as vulnerable to physical damage and wounds. All this is very hard to do, of course, particularly with such an intricate web of diverse skills and abilities, but I don't see why that isn't an admirable goal.

I think Faelings are an example of how poor balance trends can not only cause significantly dangerous combinations of advantages, but also undermine the RP identity of a group. Disadvantages are actually good, when they counter equally useful advantages. It's distinctive and interesting, and removing those defining penalties is usually detrimental, especially without toning down their key bonuses at least as much. Not to mention other issues in this case.


Again, I agree with this. Is it really that much of a problem to consider balance for non-trans, non-titan combat in addition to the top tier? Would it be so terrible to have a skillset's most integral and essential key combat skill aquired at Virtuoso, with other useful but not critical skills rounding out the top? It doesn't change trans combat at all, but it does make a huge difference to those who will never be able to get every single skill to trans to get the main benefit of it.

It might be a little difficult to achieve - keeping the highest skills enticing while not worth more than 90% of the rest of the skillset - but again I think it is a wonderful sentiment. I don't see why Zacc needs to be crucified for it.



As for the warrior issue, I avoid it entirely - I find the mechanics far too confusing to be interested in making informed judgements on it.

Except you are not factoring in combat ability (do differentiate from character skills) at all. Zacc is saying, despite of his lack of skills, level and ability combined, he should still do well against anyone with more skills, level and/or ability than him.

An Expert-level combatant with the same ability as a Trans-level combatant will end up losing, as will a 70th circle combatant with the same ability as an 80th circle combatant.

That's fine, combat ability (which to a large although not exclusive extent means trigger systems) will certainly affect battle outcomes. I don't disagree.

I don't see how that invalidates the points I picked out, about balance in general.

The only point I'd dispute is the one about balancing all skill levels equally.

I agree that every guild should have one kill condition, preferably one that requires the fewest supporting skills, moved down from the upper ranks to the expert-gifted range in one of its skillsets so that new blood has a chance to fight. As it stands, really only bards have this. Judgement should be expert-gifted sacraments. Thornlash should be expert-gifted druidry. Sacrifice, preserve, chasm, and toadcurse too.

You can't expect skills as a whole to line up, though. How useful is the ger rune when you first get it as a near-novice? How useful is the ger rune when you get high-virt druidry and learn swarm and pollen? How much more so when you learn sap? Huge difference. A lot of lower skills don't shine until they're supported by the higher skills.

In the balance you are seeking:
A top tier fighter (trans skills, high level, excellent ability) does average (affliction/damage speed) against someone who is mid tier (no/very few trans, mid level, average ability), but in the end does end up winning.

Two top tier fighters. No one would win. The affliction and damage rate would just be too small for either top tier fighter not to be able to handle it.

When two top tier fighters fight, it's the first person to make a mistake really. I know i've had many duels with Amaru and many others, and once you get your system sorted and know your way around, it's first one to make a mistake. EG I miss an inquisition evasion, or someone lets me get their head low when i have power left for crushes.

This I just don't think can be done. If they were balanced at virtuoso, wouldn't the trans players end up with more of advantage then they do now? Since all players expect the trans skill of each skillset to be better than a skill that gain in virtuoso.

I think it would make the difference worse.