Well, it's an important discussion. A lot of the time, the people who are doing this sort of thing are also people who are more willing to spend a lot of money, because it gives them an edge. They put money in to get a thrill, and as such, their word seems to carry a lot of weight. They're combatants in their organization (which often gives ++weight in organization discussions), they're valued customers, and anything even remotely edging into their fun gets the "Hey, I'm a combatant, I fight for you, leave me alone." response (this is mostly based on the few who really DO take it that far-- *most* people will realize, when you speak to them, that they've gone a little overboard and backing off slightly is a good idea). There's hesitation to try to make them back off-- because, well, if you only have a few fighters, censuring one of the few you've got just leaves you weakened. What do you do? Organizations have tried both options they have available, and they don't seem to work. It's either too much restriction, or not enough.

Actually, remember that "Glomdoring is too restrictive!" thing that was coming up in the first meeting we had with you? Every time that the restriction thing was talked about, it was in terms of combat. "Glomdoring is restricting our ability to wage battle." I remember you asking what the issues were beyond combat, but all that was really coming up was, "Our leaders are restricting our combat ability, and they shouldn't." You might not have quite had the same impression of the situation as we did, but that was pretty much the result of that-- Serenwilde started getting hit a fair bit more with hit & run so the combatants could be happy.

Like Sham said, the level of PK here is pretty low compared to other IRE muds, namely because there are so many restrictions. In Imperian and Aetolia, the HELP PK file just says to use self control, and that's it really. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Achaea's pk rules are horrendous.

They do have some problem people, but I've played all three and never really noticed a significant level of "greifing". Sometimes I feel like the more rules and regulations you put in place, the more people will try to work around them and take enjoyment from doing so. Maybe part of their enjoyment isn't from killing the person, but from knowing they are beating the system?

I really enjoy the system of "rp pk" more than the "system pk" we have here. For one thing, a system does not have the human ability to consider certain situations. It's hard coded to work the way it does. Like me getting avengered because my demesne ticked the wrong way.

Every one who declares and attacks a person who dies to a player gets status on that person. So, if 5 people hold you down while the 6th kills you, all 6 will get status. If any of the 5 had status on you already, you'll get a vengeance on them because they attacked you. So if you get killed by a group of 6, and you vitae, anyone from that group will be vengeance-able if they attack you again in the next month.

At least, thats how I understand avenger. Can't say I'm an expert on it- I don't jump people in hope that no one will jump me, and I pretty much try to avoid pk on prime

Way around it: I kill you with Shamarah and Kaervas. You vitae. Diamante, Synl, and Pentu then declare and kill you. All now have suspect, and you're a vitae-less soul.

I don't see why anyone can complain about the lack of 1 vs 1 combat. Combat is between two parties, so when you ask for more 1 vs 1 combat, you're asking for combat where two people will enjoy fighting each other. If this is the case, no system will stop you from having your fun.

Yeah, but that doesn't really happen that much, and doesn't really sound like what Neuf was saying happens.

I think PK on prime is fine. There isn't a large amount of it. I have.... one person on my suspect list.

Actually, he's right. That's pretty much what happens often enough. It was a rant thread before, so I ranted. For solutions, I dont really know any solutions, mainly because people will always find a way around it, if their goal is to make another person miserable. Maybe that's I should do, forget about lich for once. Go out and do my hunting. Let them jump me thinking they will get away with it because liching doesnt give status, and surprise them when they see I didnt have it. Yay...

but that sounds as lame a behaviour to me as those who want to hurt others :/

I can't believe anyone actually read this. I saw the name kr1n. I saw the number of replies, clicked last post and decided to make a reply telling you that YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS

And now that I've noticed Estarra has read this, I'm gonna have to

Krellan's just feeling left out.

Uh...

Usually when mags get jumped, its not to watch them lich, and then laugh and say "Haha, gotcha", and leave. By not liching, you're just making it easier.

glad to know you think so highly of me.

Is it Krin? haha

I was actually being sarcastic. I know it makes little difference, though it might save me essence (still unsure about that) and some cures since my computer is just crap and spams my entire system which probably adds to my frustrations because I know I can't do anything about it except to buy a new computer which I can't afford.

But all that doesnt change the fact that there are about four to five people out there who do go all the way out to hunt down these people whom they haven't yet got status on, or managed to get rid of the status somehow (apparently defending also removes status, but I really don't understand the Avenger system, and not in the mood to learn all its faults) and kill them for sport. The fact that they always have the best timing ever, either when one has almost bashed out an area and have a ton of corpses on one, or one is trying to help a novice with a quest or some other task, only adds to the helplessness one feels. If I was the kid, I wouldn't come back to play Lusternia. :/

Yes it is. I wasn't aware he'd been killed earlier that day, or I would not have jumped him.

Lies, you're just a bit bully!

Nobody fights on prime anyway. Seriously, if you add yet another anti-PK system you might as well just peace everyone on prime :/

One potential thing you could do is what I've been arguing for for some time, some kind of militia system where the declared fighters from a given city/commune have less restrictions on killing each other. Maybe not unrestricted killing like I was thinking originally, but perhaps suspect on each other lasts for 2-3 RL days instead of 30, or something? That would hopefully have the effect of channeling the PK towards the people who want to do it.

PS. Luxi, your avatar is adorable.

Those poor computer bits didn't know what was coming to set them.

yea thats probably the thing the irks me the most when somone kills you and steals 10k worth of your corpses.