same :censor: as in the game. so yea screw this im done with the forums.

omg thank you. I think I just saw a glimpse of heaven.

Actually, this is kind of interesting.

I don't think I've ever had a problem with being jumped while hunting, the entire time I've played. Maybe I'm just lucky?

I've had one, maybe two instances where I was jumped for no reason at all. None in recent memory though, and I sincerely hope it doesn't change. I tend to devolve into OOC contact with a lot of people though, since we like to joke/talk smack to each other afterwards, which in my opinion makes it a lot more fun. Being able to joke about stuff IG makes for a lot more enjoyment for both sides of the table.

(skipped reading most of it, decided to put what I think of this)

As other's said, drink Vitae, worth it on prime but useless off-prime.

If you're seen in enemy territory EVEN though you did not do anything, it's considered raiding for our view, you get killed for that. So less whining please and accept it.

PK on Prime currently is a bit flawed or abusable to tell you the truth especially defending a member of the same org you're in only to realize you're not in the ally list is lame, I mean, they are my allies since we're in the same organization right? It's annoying that I have to declare just to pay back on the guy who ganked one of us at the cost of suspect, perhaps the defend system should be changed?

I was wondering when this would come up.

The problem is really not with prime PK. The avenger system obviously needs some tweaks - we could mostly agree on that, but I don't think that's the point of this thread. The problem is also not that Celest is full of griefers who like to ruin the game for everyone (though there are obviously some of those people around, and some do live in Celest). The real problem is not even that the players who jump Krin/Neuf don't know how to restrain themselves; it is just that they don't know.

Did Forren have any way of knowing that you had died several times? Did any of the other people who jumped you know that you had already died? I would guess not; it's simply a matter of each individually wanting to retaliate for something. What Neuf is talking about is something entirely different - those are 'griefers' but they are relatively rare and I don't see them as a huge problem.

I am in the group that thinks there are too many restrictions for PK already - I haven't killed anyone or even fought anyone alone in OOC months. I like Shamarah's idea of a militia system. Besides that, I think every organization should have a bounty system. Think through what would have happened instead - Krin raids. Celest places a bounty on his head, agreeing to pay 10k each (or whatever) for the first two deaths. Krin is killed twice, two people make money and have fun, and everyone knows he has been killed twice and the immediate debt has been settled. The bounty also encourage other people to get involved in combat where they might not otherwise (all kinds of young Shofangi got involved to try to collect bounties), so it seems like a win on both sides. I have no idea why everyone doesn't use a similar system.

I also think Xenthos that you are turning this into a different issue. What Estarra is talking about is limiting griefing of younger people by putting individuals in check for crossing the line. What Glomdoring originally did was basically forbid all conflict besides a few Seren raids. Those are two very different things. Regardless what sort of system we have, there will always be griefers out there who want to win the game. The idea is for organizations to step in and police them as individuals. I don't think the point is that you should pass some law against jumping people or anything like that.

Yes.

Also, make it so you can attack people who are in declaration against your org members without having to declare/defend. At -least- for Protectors/Security/Champions.

Like the bounty idea. Like the militia idea though not sure how that would really work in practice.

Have Celest set one up then. If you can maintain it or find someone willing to do so it's pretty easy. I ran Seren's for a bit before it went out of order (Elysiana went inactive on it and no one bothered picking it up again) and the Shofangi one worked for a bit while we had lots more active members. They need to be active every month so the list doesn't get backed up but other than that it's pretty nice.

Unless the person was extremely active I'm not sure how a self-run bounty system would help alleviate the problem Krin experienced. We put a bounty on him. 5 people kill him before the person who maintains the list logs back in. Eh, would have to think about how that would work.

Good point. I guess Seren weren't quite as eager to participate as Celest would be. You could make it an ambassador + ambassador aide thing.

The main question is how you deal with liching and darkrebirth.

Same way you deal with resurrection and resurgem...

Really, the amount of experience for any of those is not really enough to count. I think lich/darkrebirth/transmigrate should cost minimal xp like the others, but they should also give status. For the purpose of the bounty, I would say to count everything. It is always good experience for the person doing the killing. If you expect the person to lich alot, simply offer a higher bounty if they are killed twice in quick succession.

The amount of experience loss -really- is enough to count, especially when 2 people take the hit. The difference between "none" and "smaller than praying but still praying" is immense.

As many people have argued, Mitbulls included, these various skills that save you from xp/essence loss really aren't death if you think about it. So how do you pay out a bounty on someone when they really didn't die? Were just inconvenienced a bit? Dunno about that one. Perhaps you get some credit if they lich but a bonus if they actually "die" in a fashion that loses them XP. Tracking that would be a nightmare of course and kind of makes such a system unfeasible.

Even as much as I die, I don't lose all that much. I may lose 2-4% per death if I am resurgemed. That is enough to require some hunting, but not enough to be worth all of the complaining about no-xp loss skills. There's a small difference between none and 3%.



That is true. The real issue is just to decide what the point really is. If the point is to punish the people who raided, then don't count it. If the point is to get more people involved in combat, then count it. If it is somewhere in-between, you might just offer more bounties - like offer twice as many on people who you know use lich constantly, or offer a bonus for people working together (who would be more likely to catch the person post-lich), or offer more for two deaths, or (like you said) try to offer less for a lich death, but that's hard to know.

Hmmm. I wonder if this could itself be fixed. Thinking technically for a minute: if Shadowdancer Bob sets his fae on me and then Ebonguard Jane joins in, and Bob gets the killing blow, Jane also gets on my suspect list, generally speaking. Is that also true if one of Bob's fae gets the killing blow? If so, it's at least feasible for the code to be changed so that, if you're fighting a gorgog and Revan mindblasts you a few times and then waits for the gorgog to finish the job, that he would still get suspect.

If it were, indeed, that way, what problems would that cause? How would it be abused?

Not necessarily. The admin have mentioned before that in some cases mobs and ents are coded differently. That caused some of the problems for changes people wanted to necromancy spawn, I think.

Bounty system like that should include some limits - expiration date and kills count cap, for starters.

Ents are a subset of mobs. I don't know whether it's feasible, but I think it'd be useful to figure out, if it could be done technically, would it actually help? If the answer is yes, maybe we should ask them to look into the technical side. But no sense in bothering or wasting their time unless it would help.

Yes, it would in fact help because there have been instances where, say, Narsrim messes someone up while bashing a gorgog, then sits there hindering them until they finally die. No suspect.

The problem is that it wouldn't go all the way because a -lot- of good bashing areas give enemy status, which in some cases could be valid. If I'm going to go pwn Cthoglogg right now, Thoros is maybe within his rights to get in my way in the Prison without getting himself suspect, but when I'm bashing in Shallamurine (which he doesn't give a about) and he just comes in and nails me without getting suspect it sucks.