Like I mentioned before, there are -very- strong IC incentives (nexus power, Dis/Favours, being yelled at by other orgmates etc.) that really do not make the upper planes feel like "open" PK. Sure they are mechanically, I'll give you that, but the way the player mindset has them is not.


Wouldn't those just turn into another breed of constructs? They provide an organization with a benefit and so would be treated as "manditory" defense by the players, regardless of how the admins intend them to be.



I 100% agree with your post but I think it's easier said than done. Well, the mindsets part at any rate, and it's still likely that player mindsets will override intended mechanics (see: Upper planes, Kephera/Illithoid in the Undervault). There was that Achean militia system or something that basically made Prime free-pk for people who signed up for it. Maybe that might help a bit here, to allow people to sign up for increased levels of pvp while letting those who aren't so into that kind of thing stay out of it. Then again, we already have SPARWHO, and that's run pretty stagnant. *shrug* just throwing out ideas.

Hazar's idea has merit too, but I think it'd be important to not have organizational benefit lest it become thought of as manditory.

Oh also, after talking with Shiri a bit last night, if ever a coliseum type thing were invented (which I really hope it is) there should be something to do if nobody else is there. Maybe some kind of mistform mob that only attacks you so long as someone else isn't, i.e. requires your focus (idea blatantly stolen from Shiri). Maybe the mobs could also have a scalar attack based on.... something.... so that they weren't so hard that they would lock out younger players who wanted some PvP. Also, someone else mentioned a multi-leveled coliseum, with each level having different rules. I liked that too, rather than the arbitrary switching.

A major fear though is that such a wonderful resource would probably go the way of SWHO unless the reward were real enough (fear also blatantly stolen from Shiri). Either that or orgs would throw out laws that you couldn't attack orgmates inside the coliseum and then we're back to square one with regards to player mindset messing up mechanics.

EDIT: No, I don't trust the playerbase to do things in a sane way either, hence my constant pushing for the elimination of anything that would make intended spontaneous fun pvp be thought of as mandatory for an entire organization.

And come on, you know they'd place forty guards there after we did it once.

So, attack a forest commune and decimate it. Then say "Give us refills or else we'll continue to ravage everything you hold dear."

Wait, what side am I on again? Celest or Mag...

Go away, no one likes you.

Well, you're bitching about wanting a challenge, lol. You could drop 40 guards with a large enough group, and on top of that, while you were distracting the guards, your alchemist could work in the midst of the fight.

Not to mention them having 40 guards at their alembic if they have no villages and such would be a major drain on their power and such, so it'd still be a victory for you in a way.

I'm never getting enemied to a commune again unless cities get alchemy. Far too inconvenient.

Give cities alchemy, and communes enchantments, and then I'll talk about fighting someone who's not mag.

Or do the black market thing through rogues. I know there are some (or have been some, are there still?) completely unaffiliated rogues out there - use them as your middle men... have them buy your refills from the alchemists and then give/sell them to you. They could either do this without the alchemists knowing where their kegs are ultimately winding up or they could have alchemists who don't care where their gold ultimately comes from but don't want to get caught by their commune selling directly to the enemy.

But it's moot... cause there's two forests and they don't like each other.

Or..

attack a forest commune and decimate it. Then say "Pledge your skills and resources to aiding the spread of the Light or you are supporting the Taint, and this war will continue until the vile influence is purged through your journeys through the Portal of Fate!"

Its all about perspective.

If alchemy and enchantment were both expanded so that each had slightly downgraded versions of what we use the other for, do you really think there would be a free-for-all? I don't.

It would allow for the possibility. It could happen.

Celest would be burning Glomdoring down right now if we had alchemy.

I like where this is going now.

As far as this topic goes, I think something like the outpost idea would be neat, as well as non org-tied conflict quests.

Well, let me clarify by saying I'm not really upset. I have a fulfilling experience in Lusternia that involves a lot of both RP and conflict, some of which is spontaneous, and some of which I lay the groundwork for OOCly among both IC enemies and allies, so I don't really feel the pain that you or others feel who feel like they're at the end of their rope in terms of what they can and can't do.

There are two things that are frustrating me. One is that people are complaining about problems they feel are insoluble, yet they are also unwilling to try to do anything different. When you're firmly committed to continuing the status quo, and you also complain about the status quo, that's frustrating to watch. Why even start a thread about this if you aren't open to someone suggesting doing something different besides raiding? I guess it would help me out to know what sorts of suggestions you're looking for.

The other thing is that we do not have competing feasibility assessments. You have a feasibility assessment, because you've never seen it done. I have experience, because I've seen it done. I've played games where competing factions worked to create cross-org events for their members that meant both consensus and sacrifice, and they were fun and productive. I've played games where they went free-PK, and they did not become post-apocalyptic wastelands of griefing. I've played games where groups worshipped gods and ruled cities that were complete player fabrications - the admins did nothing - and they were vibrant groups. Your insistence that this does not, in fact, happen, is frustrating. I know you aren't meaning to, but you're calling my veracity into question. You're basically saying, "I know you're saying that you've experienced all this successfully, but I'm pretty sure this could never be done successfully." The ironic parallel to the motorcycle/cow thread is not escaping me.

I will be happy to give you many concrete examples, but before I invest time doing that, let me ask you what you'll accept as a good enough point of comparison. Is "a fantasy MMORPG" enough, or does it have to be an IRE game? Because, as I've said, a lot of Achaeans felt the same way you do, and I would suspect for the exact same reasons. They just didn't think a player in an enemy org could possibly think of their enjoyment.

Let me ask you a question. Why is there little to no thieving in Lusternia?

It should have happened long ago.

Wtf. That's stupid. THERE IS ANOTHER FOREST! STOP BEING A BUNCH OF WHINEY PANSIES! YOU CAN SURVIVE FOR A COUPLE WEEKS WITH JUST A SINGLE SOURCE OF ALCHEMY! YOU DID IT PLENTY BEFORE GLOMDORING WAS AROUND.

Gah. For 's sake. You bitch and moan and then make excuses. Its your own damn fault you're bored if you aren't willing to get a LITTLE inconvenienced, for christ's sake. Its called a dynamic role-playing environment. If you aren't willing to take a chance, then its your own fault that you're in the situation you're in. Just quit already and stop filling the Pool of stars with you god forsaken bitch tears.

Harden up, Princess.

Wow.

He had such a convincing argument until he leaned on the Capslock too.

I think that's a violation of the treaty.

Although, if you're miffed about Inky, Kaervas is asking to be replaced on account of doing so little, and whoever comes after Kaervas can probably count to five, read CHELP CELESTTREATY, and hit the ostracize button.

Celest really had no reason to make a treaty with Glom aside from alchemy, to be honest..

Yeah. That, and Serenwilde isn't reliable in the least.

"Oh, its tuesday, we don't like you anymore"