Yet.. if Glom is reliable.. and Seren isn't.. why not burn Serenwilde and continue your nice steady alchemic relationship with Glom totally unaffected by fickle Serens? Celest survived just fine alchemy-wise before Glomdoring was around, so insisting that you need two sources is just plain silly and spoiled.

I find it funny people are saying how spoiled Lusternian players are, while Celest is the biggest example of that. "No! I don't wanna have only one toy! I need two! Even if they are redundant and one easily serves the purpose of both!"

It's actually Friday (Thursday for a lot of you).

And I thought it was more Celest going:
'Oh, we have what we need. We don't need you anymore'

So you're saying that the state of Lusternia is -exactly- where it was before Glomdoring was around? That's just plain silly. You have NO idea what it would be like if Celest and Commune went to war, you have NO idea whether or not Serenwilde would try to extort Celest. You have NO idea whether or not we'd decide to let Celest suffer.

Making a broad-sweeping statement without considering -any- of the hypotheticals, the what-ifs, is an extraordinarily poor argument. Your frustration at hearing Forren complain is weakening your arguments, and they were reasonable before. Why not take a break, a steak back, and analyze the situation again because I think you're getting a bit bent out of shape.

You need to spend a bit less time reading the cow-puns in that Real World thread.

Munsia on my mind.

No, what I'm saying is--you can't enjoy a game if you're wetting your pants at every trace of a hypothetical on the breeze. You need to take the plunge if boredom is the problem, and sometimes the plunge results in you misjudging the depth of the water, but hey, it makes for a great story somewhere down the line.

No, the game isn't in the same state, but Glom is a very reliable org in all reality. Unless you break the treaty with them first, its likely that they won't backstab you when you go to war with their enemy, unless you target the fae.

So, freaking out over hypotheticals is stupid and is at the root of the problem. Being unwilling to take a risk for the sake of fun can only ever lead to boredom, and the Celestians are already admitting that it is. I don't know why you guys are so resistant to fun just because it might take Celest off the top. Its kind of pathetic and childish, really. You can't win Lusternia.

Your mom does.

I can say for certain that even when Celest wasn't at the top, they were still nervous about going to war with one of the communes. If I'm reading this correctly, your argument is that they're stupid to feel nervous about going to war with a commune because of a potential lack of alchemy. Are you also of the mindset that players are stupid for feeling like their off-plane territories are safe?

I think the point of the matter isn't how it should be, but rather what IS. Celest is afraid of losing alchemy. They believe it likely to occur should they go to war with a commune. OBVIOUSLY they've given this hours and hours of thought. Back before I left Celest there was a HUGE disagreement in faethorn that may have erupted in a war, but didn't. They didn't do that without thought. I know I was pressing for war and bitching at Forren for this fear Celest has of losing potions, but I've come to realize that it's just something I have to accept. In my opinion it's nearly impossible to change players' mindsets, -especially- on a huge topic like this. Look at how long, and how much kicking Glomdoring had to take to show even the slightest bit of progress. Loathe though I am to say it, Glomdoring has made stunning progress. I may hate the regime just as much as I used to, but I certainly don't feel the oppression that once existed.

My only point is that if they can't get over their fears, then its their own fault that they're bored. They have a way to rectify that boredom, but they don't want to. That's really all there is to the situation. So long as they refuse to fight a commune on their own terms, they will be bored. There's no way around that so long as Mag is on its knees.

You don't think that Seren would be in an equally pitiable position as Magnagora?

It won't change just because Celest will have two avenues of its destructive outlet. They still FAR surpass the combat prowess of ANY other organization. The issue at hand isn't that Magnagora doesn't have enough people to fight, in my opinion, it's the defense-fatigue and complaining that they face from their victims which won't simply be abated because Celest has another target.

The solution:

Open up Ackleberry!

And Gaudi and Halli! Because let's face it. The world is far too overpopulated.

:Xinemus:

Having two outlets means each outlet gets hit a little less. Having two outlets also means two inlets for retaliation. Mag and Seren would need to ally to rival Celest, and should the scales ever start to tip and Mag find itself getting back on its feet, Celest makes peace with Seren and returns its focus solely to Mag.

If Celest fights both Seren and Mag, then those Mags and Serens who enjoy fighting can go to the other's aide. And with two outlets, if Celest shows even a bit of restraint, then neither faction will get as much defense-fatigue as Mag is currently getting--you can't deny that point.

You're right...

But I can deny that Seren would willingly work with Mag. Mag's been raiding Seren. I think their relations are tenuous at best, at the moment. Suffice to say, I don't think our goal should be to SPLIT the defense fatigue, but to reduce it, but I think that's being argued in the other thread. Or this one. These threads are starting to run together in my head.

Wouldn't a common enemy draw them together though?

I can only speak for myself, really, and right now I'd be more willing to work with Celest than with Magnagora. Mag has raided, Celest hasn't. Ideally they'd work together, though, yes...

Pfh.

Jojoba is where it's at.

I don't believe my not wanting to follow your suggestions or finding the same things enjoyable in the game means I am stating I want to keep doing the same thing and see different results. I think it is just me stating that I disagree with your position that such things would actually fix the underlying problem that I'm talking about.

On a personal level I really don't find planned RP all that much fun except from time to time when it really is absolutely necessary. It makes me feel less immersed in my character. If I were an actor, I would likely be one of those weird ones that totally becomes that character while doing the part. So no, I don't find the suggestions all that appealing on a personal level. If other people do and want to run with it, that'd be great.

You seem to be hung up on me saying it's impossible. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying two things. One, I am not certain that in the Lusternian environment with the players attitudes and mindsets being what they are, that such a situation would work out that well. Two, I don't think that such a situation is actually the solution to the problem I'm pondering. Your insistence that it is, is really baffling. If you want to prove me wrong, you're more than welcome but I'm not going to engage in the work required to negotiate such activities when I am not interested in such activities heh.

Haven't been keeping very up with the forums, but I'm assuming the bolded statement is in relation to Celest's treaties with Seren and Glom? If not, sorry. Just trying to get clarification.

Assuming that having two outlets would reduce the number of hits per outlets assumes that Celest is already at its maximum destructive capacity and I can assure you, it's not. And honestly just "making peace" is not the easy thing you seem to think it is. Celest went to war with Seren how long ago? Over a year? And things are just now even getting to the point where a lot of resentment has faded and the two orgs are even willing to talk? While it's interesting and all you seem to have a very odd view of the speed with which Basin politics work.