You'd think, but everyone whines about dying there. This would be more of a "I can kill everyone" zone. No restrictions.

On second thought - it would be silly. It would neuter Lusternia's playing/fighting environment.

No, people feel obligated to defend the planes even if they don't feel like fighting which is what results in the complaints of too much raiding.

If you jump people on astral, you're lame for killing people while bashing.

Otherwise, you're raiding, griefing, and a terrible person who is ruining the game.

Don't forget the accusations of having no ooc morals or sense of decency heh.

It's definitely not like that. If you go to Celestia or Nil or Etherwilde/Etherglom you're raiding, and if you go to Faethorn or Astral people expect them to be bashing/influencing areas and not to get ganked there all the time. None of them are specifically set out as areas for PKing people. If they were a lot fewer people would go there because they just don't want to be involved in that stuff.

That generally comes in with going out of one's way to make defenders pay outrageously for the crime of defending, or constant, unceasing raiding. Occasional raiding doesn't usually get that sort of response.

Edit: This is for the other thread, though!

People don't usually whine when I raid for fifteen minutes and leave. I personally dislike long raids - it makes everyone feel bad.

I agree with Forren.

I think the real solution is permadeath.

Lots of characters will never leave their home organization ever again.

I like the idea of an area where your organisation doesnt matter. If people enter of their own free will and the organisations see it as a competition of individual might and honours, where city mates can fight each other without worry of city rules. But I dont know how you would get around the usual inclination to team together.

I have to disagree that they're not specifically set out as areas for PKing people. The Avenger specifically ignores the Planes for this reason.

If you want that to be the case, there should probably be a mass series of events where people are told by their respective Important Figures that they aren't required to defend, and should only go up there if they feel like fighting.

I have a suggestion about the raiding stuff

Why dont the city/commune approach each other IC'ly and make some sort of informal/formal agreement stating that on certain days raiding is allowed.. on certain days its not because that time will be so used to recover what was lost?

So for example, we set mon-wed as no raid-day.. and thru-sun as raiding day..

How about that? so this way, people know when to be raided and when not to.. and they are given time to breathe..

Even fighters need vacations too right?

(this is apart from such stuff as weakenings.. and only deals with the normal 'i felt like it' raiding thing thats been going on)

I find that most people don't mind raids themselves. It's when people raid 5-6 times a day for substantial amounts of time, where half of the time they spend just running around or mowing over people who aren't capable of defending themselves (which would be fine if this wasn't happening constantly).

Sadly it's be really hard to come up with a place that offers enough incentive to go to for some good conflict, that isn't sucking conflict out of the rest of the game and isn't mandating that anyone HAS to go there.

And Nezha, interesting in theory, but what about the people who are only around Monday through Wednesday?

Random thought that is not likely to make sense or be good because I haven't slept much in the past week: Some sort of area where you go and can earn personal rewards (blessings++?), but discourages teaming people (I'm assuming that detection of who is fighting with who already exists because of the whole declare/defend thing). So if two people are fighting and Person B runs in to defend their friend, both person B and the friend earn nothing for killing the other. Or something (a kill would probably...not give you anything alone anyways). That way people wouldn't just run around in a mob squad and ruin the fun.

Even with this, that's not all of the people who might want to raid that are raiding. That's a subset with others who think there is too much going on as it is sitting around bored. If everyone raided even once a day, the complaints would remain the same. For a couple of days I would raid once a day in the mornings, completely by myself against groups of 5 to 8 people generally and I would actually die rather than just haven away as I could have easily enough and people *still* complained to me about that. At that point I just gave up. It is easy for people to say that most people don't mind raids themselves but I really think they do.

Actually, that was only an example.. so we might sprinkle it in a week and do something like m-w-f?

Some people might need to adjust.. but at least you know that some days you will be peaceful and you know somedays you will not..

Thats why the orgs wll have to work out the scheduling bit and would need toconsult with each other to find the most efficient time possible..

I really don't think something like that would work out. If someone raids in non-scheduled times is the org going to kick them out? If they don't kick them out then the agreement is meaningless and others will start ignoring it as well. Voluntary agreements generally only last as long as someone deciding they don't feel like holding to it.

I don't really know how to argue with this except to say that people expect to hunt, pass through and influence there in peace. The fact that Fae are terrible experience for high-level characters and the bashing is all mid-level as well seems to reinforce this idea. Astral I could see as being explicitly a PK area but this isn't how it's entered player culture. All the aetherbubbles don't seem to be set out this way too. The only indicator is that the Avenger doesn't protect them, and with the other factors it comes about that they expect to do the stuff the area SEEMS to be set out to enable them to do (bash, influence, quest) and then when they get ganked it upsets them. It's just not clear to everyone that dying is what they should expect going out there.

Well yeah, that's the inherent problem when people are playing at different times, and unfortunately leads to what your topic is all about. Inevitably there's a person who is there for your raid, and then that guy over there's raid, and then that girl who got bored and blood-lusty's raid, and now you have someone who hasn't gotten the chance to do what they were planning on or what have you. There is no solution to all whining because no one likes to be on the losing end, but I agree that we need some way of reducing raids without killing them off.