so for once I managed to use lust influence productively to kill people (granted only a few denizens like bob are useful this way and no doubt people will demand them to be changed so they can not be seduced. Which I believe a pitty since seduce is a fun skillset) However I can not help but think there is a certain lack of avenger there.

So my adviced change is:
- make a denizen under lust control count as a pet in avenger terms and give status
- let the person that lusted the denizen get the kill xp for it
- under no circumstance should it count as denizen death in case of events.

oh and before people say that is to powerful, bob can not kill people for me alone, and not many denizens can significantly help in killing people like bob can so keep that in mind before discussing that point.

I was quite upset when I saw I lost xp for your little trick. It's skirting the rules, I feel. Sap+bob was not cool, especially since you summoned me out of a fight I was already wounded from. Clever though, very clever.

I do hope my xp is returned

well it is the point of the lust skill set, but I did not expect you to lose xp

It's not a lust skillset... it's a small part of the Influence skillset. It can be useful for guards, or certain quest denizens-- but using an NPC to dodge suspect (while actually fighting them-- as you said, Bob wouldn't kill them alone, so you must have been doing some kind of "hold down") has been issueable in the past. I imagine it's no different in this case than walking in on someone hunting and binding them up so the NPC can avoid Avenger for you. It is pretty much the same thing-- only Bob's stronger.

not for guards, they are immune, most denizens are to weak (tosha is ok for the zerg, miakoda is ok, bob is really really good)

and if that is issueable then what is the point in having the skill of lust, I mean really if they put in a skill they then make illegal to use is rather silly and really their fault to begin with.

Anyway the fixes I mentioned should actually negate any abuse that can come from it.

Eh, true, they did change new guards-- but making an NPC aggro to someone is one way to get them to leave the room. The issue isn't making them aggressive-- it's making them aggressive and then using them as a pet to kill someone while you lock them down, avoiding suspect.

Yes, the solution is okay, but that doesn't make the action itself any better.

erm I can not believe they ever intended for lust to work alone, sorry but denizens you can influence are just to weak to serve for that purpose. They are supposed to be used by having yourself there to also attack, if not there is a serious design flaw. It should also be noted you are allowed to jump people while they are attacked by denizens. (I was also planning on cudgeling and stuff but she died before I could). I would of much rather got the kill on Celina myself because xp is always better.

Anyway if it is truly illegal they should just replace lust with something useful then, like influencing storekeepers to lower their prices

No, it's not, if you're intentionally circumventing Avenger by locking them down and making sure that the NPC gets the kill, not doing much to get the kill yourself.

You attacked. I died. I lost xp and didn't get suspect. There's a conflict here.

my intent was not for the npc to get the kill. my intent was for the NPC to damage her enough so I could get a kill. using a single sap also does not qualify as locking.

@Bianca: I did not intent for you to lose experience, the reason I tested it during this event was because I thought you would be protected from xp loss. outside of events I would only use it against people that try to jump me during influencing. (well and on the duum people since they are made immune against paranoia)

Believe it or not but now that I know that it does what it does I will not be soon to use it until it gets fixed some how.

I'm not bad at you, I mean, it was a little shady but it was a bit too clever for me to be too mad about I just want my XP

How much did you lose?

3%. It's the principle!

You shouldnt rely on denizen getting them close if you arent going for kill. The fact you used a denizen to kill IS abusive with Avenger. You should not get xp for the denizen being slain as you didnt slay it. Its fine that you can influence em, but you shouldnt use it with yourself to make it a kill.

That was abusive, even unintentional. Denizens being used at all for combat is wrong (that are lusted)

At level 81? I can get you that in 10 minutes if not less.

I doubt you'll get your experience back, though.

no it isn't , it is no more wrong then you using guards when someone raids your territory. I can not actively control a denizen and thus there are many many draw backs. If Bianca was remotely paying attention to the summon she would never of been trapped, nobody will willingly enter a room where a druid and denizen of bob's strenght reside either. Nor would anyone stand still for me to summon them into a supernal (which is perfectly legal).

it is not because you do not yet know how to deal with a situation that it is abusive. I personally think the influencing system was not well thought out and I do hope they get their own summit to make it both more usefull and to fix these things that admins forgot when they designed avenger. But to negate what (for most influencers who have low con in exchange for high char) is a good defense is really taking away potential from something interresting.

I also wonder where you would draw the line since I could easily of used a demesne with effects to hinder her instead, and gathering from the state she was in (since she died by just being afflicted by sap, something normally cured within 3 seconds) and the usage of a demesne is perfectly acceptable.

In fact I personally think things like shieldsmah and thieving are a lot worse then this. Since they will never give status.

Wrong. You summoned me out of a very spammy brawl. I think I already mentioned that. I had about half my health when you sapped, and my illusoryself was on it's last bit of life, hence why I dropped like a rock.

I didn't die from sap, I cured sap well before 3 seconds. As I said, was suffering from the wounds of battle, didn't really have time to respond before I was dead.

learning to make summon noticable during spammy battles is a very valuable lesson though, I learned it the hard way too :shifty:

I am sure you will be working on a method to notice it better so I can never do it again though. Which is always good.

I already have a flashing echo. When it's 10 people brawling it out, you tend to miss things like that

Lets see... part 1.

Guards are made to DEFEND territory, a seduced (not lusted) mob attacks personal enemies and is not meant for defense.

part 2

I have used seduction, I do NOT stay with the denizen as its purpose isnt to help me kill someone (which IS abusive even if you didnt seduce it to attack, which means yes jumping someone whose fighting something is kind of abusive).


If you get hoisted and cubixed to an enemy plane to avoid avenger, thats issuable and abusive. Technically you CAN get out of it so it doesnt happen. Its still issuable. It can be issued because its abusive, not because you can stop it.

Your argument that you can escape sap is baseless as the issue isnt whether you can cure something its whether you should have done what you did. Which you shouldnt have.

Lastly, admin are too busy, but I -have- been asked to bring it up in 2-3 months when emofist are out and all so admin have some time for it. Posting abuse of influence skills will not get it changed faster though I would say using it to intentionally kill someone sounds issuable. So I believe this counts as a warning as I presume you would be issued next time (though I doubt there would be one).