Yeah. Carbon copy + different name = boring.

I'm a big fan for chaingrab instant kills.

If you are being dragged in two directions at once, you get torn in half.

I'll let somebody else figure out ways to make that not too overpowerd. But I think its a necessity.

Perhaps, you get torn in half, but it only ends up doing like 1000 damage, and doesn't actually kill you.

This seems wrong. Very, very wrong.

well the important part is that two people can tear somebody in half, and that other people in the room can see that happen.

the combat details are a bit less important.


But if you insist, then how about this:

If your health is below 50% and two people drag you in different directions, then you start getting torn apart, and bleed 500 damage per "tick". If you die from that bleeding, then it activates a "get ripped in half" sequence. Otherwise you just writhe out of the grab.

So, a less sucky version of thornlash for monks?

And im serious about this

How about we make it so that up to four people can chain grab someone and then depending on the number of participants.. the affliction line is either "ripped in half", "shredded in three", or "torn in four different directions"?

Or someone can hang from a ceiling then chain-choke you?

Or, if you are chain grabbed already, another monk can jump on the chain then run on top of it towards you for some evil assault?

Gosh,

It is made so double block will not stop it. The admins didnt want a carbon copy of beckon. But trust me, if you try to make double block stop it, shield will not stop it. This will make it worse IMO when you must have 2 warriors or people that have high skill in riding to block. When shield is a free skill.

Giving it to everyone? Why? Thats like saying give Rage Coven, Trueheal, Lich, Transmigrate to everyone. Now I think it should be placed into the stealth skillset, but not in a general everybody gets it skillset.


If it is to be changed, it will end up like beckon an exact copy of it without an ent. It will be whored as much as it is now, and people can simply walk in attack the blockers behind things like tripleflash, rush, etc and have the rest simply whore spam "beckon". (Now as it is chaindrag is being spammed alot, so that part won't change)

As for SAW's idea...... I kind of like it, but I think the length of time is too long. What is to stop a person (who isnt being dragged) from walking into the chaindraggers room and attacking him while the dragger is held up in this new version? It seems more like a super nerf. If they were to do that, maybe they should make angels and demons walk into the other room and slowly debate the person while they are beckoning them into the room? See what I mean, people would just kill the angel/demon.

I like it though, dont get me wrong I am just not sure how to work it time wise to make it worth it. Writhing is so quick, even under constrict. As it stands now all of our grapples do not even need to be writhed out of, you can fight while being grappled (I mean ninshi grapple not a basic kata grapple). Anyways thats another discussion. But how can we time it better or make it so it isn't so easily and simply stopped?

Balance != everyone being capable of the exact same things. Balance means having different things that counter one another. Balance does not mean that A and B are 100% equal in terms of Combat. Balance in a world were group combat is the focus means that if A has an advantage of B, that B should have an advantage of C, and C should have an advantage of A, thus creating the need for teamwork.

And simple is only good if it isn't also shallow. What you want is shallow, in my opinion, and therefore not really good.

Edit: and as for Ildaudid's ninja... isn't the point -to- get them in the room in the first place? Obviously if you're dragging them in you've got a group whose prepared to gank them. I don't see how them walking in when you want them in is a bad thing. And your example doesn't work because an Angel/Demon would allow them to kil the angel/demon.. they can't kill your chain. In your example, Demon enters room, gets ganked, person is still in their room. With the chain, you send chain in, they walk in.. and get ganked because they walked into the room you wanted them in in the first place. How is that bad?

And perhaps it won't have as much use in sieges, but it would have plenty of use in the middle of a brawl where ninjakari could slip out and drag certain people out of the main fight to deal with however the monk's team has seen fit, perhaps into a pit or a field of hexes. There's lots of possibilities that still make it incredibly usful without it being OP.

QFT

So how is it balanced to give one organization Beckon & Chaindrag, one Beckon, and the others are stuck with Rad-type mixtures? Thus, one organization has the most ability to get around the counters, while everyone has the same access to all counters (sans Stonewall, which also belongs to the Beckon & Chaindrag org). It might be different if the Chaindrag-skill went with the Communes, so it'd be a different thing spread out, but even then... I think it's a fair bit stronger than beckon, given how bloody easy it is to drop shield (especially using acrobatics-- hi, Tripleflash!). Best thing to do is either 1) Remove it, or 2) Make it stopped by 2 blockers. And no, don't give it to Communes.

You can only quote it for truth if the overall sentiment is actually truthful-- see above.

Ok this part is the part I meant:


This is truth... carbon copies does not a good game make.

And seriously when people take chaindrag to the forums to whine and whine and whine about it, especially those who, if they had it wouldn't whine one bit.... makes me sick. The skill may need some tweaking, along with about 10 other skills I have bugged so far.... but it is not in anyway something that should be removed. It is something that should be learned to deal with, counter, etc.

When beckon was released what happened then? Was there the same outcry? Since beckon is actually IMO better. It goes through shield, and any bard can tf and do that kick move to knock the "blockers" out of the room. Now I never see it happen, but I think that is because people don't know how to think outside the box. And when they do, people cry nerf.

Look at Alger, he thought outside the box, and ended up getting tracking nerfed..... Ixion with springtraps, thought outside the box on using them, got them nerfed, Shamarah thinks outside the box, and there is an outcry about choke... especially when he is holding the choke....

It just seems that the playerbase need to be "fed milk as they are not ready for meat"
Learn to think, grow, expand your brain, come up with ideas to your skillset. But please do not scream nerf nerf so much. The admins hear all of us screaming nerf nerf nerf sooooo much, that they are becoming desensitized to it, and not going to care about major problems due to all the whining about minor problems.

Except if you read the original post, I'm not proposing chaindrag remain the same as beckon, but be something quite a bit different.

And I'm not saying the game is balanced, I'm saying what Malaicia's asking for isn't balance. That seems to be where you're getting confused. But your confusion doesn't make me wrong, as I never said the current situation was balanced.

However, previously, Cities had the best abilities to bring you to them, while Communes had the best abilities to move to their opponents. That was the general idea of balance, even if people had issues of the actual mechanics, the concept was there. The cities were apparently meant to make standing defenses/forces, where as the Communes seem a bit more guerilla. At least when you look at the original abilities. That isn't so much the case any more, but eh, again, I never said the current situation was balanced.

Being stopped by double block and shield still makes it a different skill than being stopped by double block, prone, and off-eq. I'd say the former is much more useful.

Why are you defending this so... stupidly? If Celest got anything like that, how would you react? Honestly. Think about it. You would scream about how unfair it is and act like a 2 year old not getting their way.

Blocking should stop it, shield should stop it. It is not a 'carbon copy' of beckon, it's just balanced.

And where are the Admin in this? I want to hear some of their opinions for allowing such a skill to pass.

This is why I stopped buying credits with my real life money. Stuff that clearly gives an advantage for one org over another for really no reason (or at least none stated from an unbiased perspective). Why should I pay for a game when I am basically being punished for being in the 'top' org of the month?

Some things make me really sick also, Ildaudid.

Chaindrag needs tweaking. You are certainly right there. It needs to be prevented by double-block, or removed. It's hardly necessary. In a game seemingly built upon group combat, this ability is designed to make it easier to pull single persons into larger groups, to be killed.

@SAW- I wasn't entirely serious about giving it to all orgs. That would never happen. My main point is that it's unfair and imbalanced. But I'm not posting here to complain about it. It needs a look and from what I heard, only the Mag monk committee is in support of it, the way it is. So, I'm just hoping that other envoys use a slot to address the issue. I'm certainly going to talk to Celest's envoys and special ones like Geb and Murphy, to see what can be done.

Last thing, beckon wasn't introduced to Lusternia, Ildy. 'Released'? It is a common ability in Imperian, Aetolia and Achaea. Secondly, tripleflash costs 10p and scissorkicking won't hit enemies that are shielded and knocks un-shielded persons in RANDOM directions.

hilerious, when i propose skrimish abilities for monks, the monks get a gank ability. Anyway I do like the idea, but if it does what i think it does, its too strong.

My idea for it to keep it seperate from the diffrent guilds.

They all could work through shield, block, walls etc...

Tahtetso - Polevault (can't travel the same you came from with the target.)
Able to polevault into a room and slam your feets into a target, sending the target flying into the other enemies in the room members sprawling them and disepears into with leaving the unbalanced and you recovering.

(note: to add a twist diffrent from bulls charge, make the not show for other enemies that was in the room and it only prones the others in the room)


Shofangi - Bulls Charge (can't travel the same you came from with the target.)
Able to crush stone walls with this ability, you crash into the room, shattering any walls with your head, rushing forward in a furious frenzy you send all enemies sprawled and unbalanced as you crash through forward your slaming your head first, straight into him sending you both flying into leaving the others sprawled and unbalanced for a brief moment.

(note: the twist to this one is it sprawls and unbalances everyone in the room, able to destroy walls, but leaves the direction they traveled in)


Ninjakari - Ninukhi: (can't pull if any other players in the room)
*description as before, but remove the direction*

(note: the twist to this one is it pulls the enemy into your room and couldn't show direction and it fails if any other players in it with the side effect of entangling one random player in the room if it did fail..)

hope that gets some support this time

I want these two to be implemented just so you can see how wickedly imbalancing this would be. Screw demesnes, you need a monk and a mount.

the effect are already in, see tidesweep

and it is sooo overpowered *sarcasm*