The fact is, they're posting here and contradicting what they've said elsewhere. That was his point.

Different formatting for understanding?

1. We did. Now they are posting out here and so are we. The arguments there are being treated as new arguments out here with completely different responses than they represented there. That is what I am calling them on. Ildaudid knows exactly what I am talking about.

2. You don't see how when you say: "Again, no one said because the Admins saw it it's fine, they're saying the Admins saw it and are looking very closely to see where it should be tweaked to bring it in balance (and this was only said as Aison was demanding Admin attention)." and how Ildaudid saying "Well seeing that chaindrag was just an idea that was thrown around when discussing skills for ninjakari, it could have never been even put into the skillset. But the admins decided they liked the idea and implemented it. So that is where they are. (This is your point, but it does not make mine any less tangible)-->They are also watching it closely (most likely with all new guilds/skillsets) to make sure it is balanced enough or not." counters it??? Bawhuh? He's saying exactly that. It's the same defense they've used a million times now. It got implemented they must love it hurfadurfmuffins.

3. It's worth a lot of credits for the most populated monk guild to be released during a credit sale right before the biggest gift holiday in existence. It makes perfect sense business-wise to shoot first and ask questions later.

Ooh.

EDIT: *sigh* You know what, I guess this isn't my battle. Because you all obviously know what's best for everyone.
Toodles!

very nice idea about running on the chain.

If a person is already chained, and you chain them as well, you leap upon the chain, run towards them, wrap your chain around their neck, run into the next room and start yanking!.

This gives them a broken windpipe affliction and stuns them (nod me)

At least their priorities are in order...

It is one of the excuses I hear about chaindrag from others....



Desi, you know I said the same things there. Same exact thing about it being allowed into the skillset. And I said if it proved to be too powerful it should be changed. So far I haven't seen it as too powerful. I have hit peoples shields 99% of the time, so to me I think that it is working fine. I did say wait and see... But this wait and see is not wait and see how it truly works, this fiasco is nothing but people with their squeaky wheel mentalitly, and since it made it in the game are hell bent to nerf something they do not have. I also said it may need some tweaking, but again just because you have people who jump on a bandwagon and use a squeaky wheel approach to fixing this, does not mean it really needs tweaking. It was working off balance/off eq, that has been fixed (I think), but the whining continues. Like I said, it may need tweaking, but it is not up to the squeaky wheel, who just wants to whine the loudest, on what the tweaking is.



And you know this how? If I recall I havent seen you in that part of the forums. And as I stated above, I did not change how I feel about it. I said wait and see, but a bunch of people whining loudly about something that hasn't even hit them because they were shielding isn't "wait and see" to me.

He clarified my post for someone else. He did not say that he knew what the contradiction was about. For you, I will refer your statements regarding everyone getting chaindrag in THIS thread to be cross referenced with your statements on Page 4 of Chaindrag Discussion posted on 12/14/2007. Feel free to browse on over.

As for "tweaking", you are now using more circulatory arguments declining to discuss factuality and ramping up anti-crowd tactics. "This opinion is invalid because more than one person has it, making it a bandwagon." I can chaindrag out of a group fight 99% of the time, whose made up percentage is right? It's not my fault you can't figure out how to time it.

Chaindrag doesn't need a fix. People are handling it fine. We've been on many raids now and the only people we've managed to chaindrag are the ones who aren't paying attention. It's not hard to shield... which many people have been doing successfully. From what's being seen in practice, everyone's whining about this skill is really silly and unbased. Every raid Mag's been doing, you have been handling chaindrag just fine. Chew on that for awhile

Ok you are right Desi, my bad on how it should be spread. Ok I did say that it giving it to all monks wouldn't be bad. So I will stick by that.

As for timing it right, it can end up timed if you can see them coming into a room, but shield stopping it really does make it so it is hard to time. Now if one of them staffcasts/shoot that water crap into the room, I will get them, but to know when they do something that would drop their shield is hard.


As for one opinion, its not that that bothers me, it is the whole squeaky wheel mentality. Some people are just saying crap because the rest are. Some people haven't even been chaindragged who are complaining about it, they "to me" are the squeaky wheel bandwagoneers.

What exactly stops chaindrag at this point? Did shielding always work?

Yes shielding stops it, sitting stops it. And shielding has always stopped it.

I don't believe the problem is how well those who currently have the skill are using it but rather the pretty clear potential it has for being ridiculous as soon as people get a handle on using it.

I am not certain why people are playing dumb with the potential for this skill as I think it's pretty obvious for anyone really thinking about it. You cannot keep shield up when you're attempting to fight. You can be dragged off balance and off equilibrium. (People keep contradicting themselves as to whether that should even be possible or not but since people keep using the skill and I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that people wouldn't keep using the skill if it was so bugged)

Given these two facts it is impossible for any group to protect themselves from having individual members dragged off as soon as a fight begins. You can choose to stay shielded and not fight or you can choose to get dragged out. And that is just a simple scenario not even counting in things like waylay. All you have to do is have a few monks stay outside the combat room and yank victims to them to pick them off one by one while the main fight is going on. And you all know this.

Could someone who is defending this skill please explain how the ability to disperse a fighting group with absolutely no power cost and nothing that group can do to stop it, beyond icewalls which also cannot feasibly be kept up during a fight, is reasonable? I hear a lot of people saying people are overreacting but no one seems able to explain just what exactly a group can do reasonably, while engaged in combat to protect themselves against this tactic that is already being employed?

Because you are just jealous of their skills, obviously.

Catarin, the only thing that shouldn't stop chaindrag is blocking. off bal/eq should stop it. Everything should stop it but blocking. There's no potential to drag people out of a fight if those people are actively hitting or whatever (though I won't say there isn't a chance). Yes it's powerful, but alot of abilities are.Look at lust/empress for example. What's stopping a celestine from walking into a fight, lusting, then empressing away? it happens ALL THE TIME!! Really it's a broken record at this point. Chaindrag is fine.

Alright then telling you right now it is BUGGED heh. So please stop using it! What we are seeing on our end is that people are getting dragged when they are off balance/equilibrium. I myself have been dragged off equilibrium at least two times now and off balance once.

Did I miss the reject chain command? What multi-step process is required from the user to chaindrag again? None? If you have another monk raze for it, it's still not comparable, considering the same could be said for needing to break shield to lust, then more steps are still needed. On top of that, you can't empress someone else's lust. Please though, keep the straw men a'comin. Bonfire.

I posted for the guild not to use it until those bugs are fixed. Thanks Catarin.

Thanks!

Fixed! (Try it out please. You should also notice more messages if the chaindrag fails).

I hear a lot of passionate arguments on both sides of the chain, so we're letting it play out and allowing the envoys to come to a final determination.

Huh? Empress is stopped by rejecting lust, monoliths, and summon resistances. Plus it requires the tarot user to come into the fight beforehand and get the lust so they have to place themselves in harms way. Chaindrag lets you sit outside of combat, safely, and yank people out whom are fighting.