Suggestion: Remove the prone from Polevault & Bulls Charge, make a random unbalance on Bulls Charge that differ for each thats hit 1-2 seconds (to delay a whole group from assisting)

This way with Ninukhi & Polevault the party leader has to search rooms where he got taken and the Shofangi ability delays them from assisting but direction is shown.

EDITED: To update the idea briefly that i forgot to add..

On all moves, make you enter kata on the opponent.
And a ~10 second cooldown before you could use the move again. (to avoid spamming it, powercost wouldn't solve it just make toptier able to still spam it)

Here's the thing - complicated is not good. Your suggestion for fixing this is unnecessarily complicated. The less work and convoluted implementations the administrators have to deal with, the more likely they are to do something. The easiest, simplest, and most fair way to fix this skill is making it blocked by blocking.

But that doesn't fix the issue of it behing another gank skill, which the mud doesn't need.

And the monks happends to be in need of skrimish abilities so i see it very fitting. We have no real roles for group combat, which most other classes have and skrimish fits our theme.

Mage/Druids - got demesne for active participating.

Warriors - got block, numb just general party leadings skills. ( could use some skrimish abilities too)

Bards - all their attacks his several people.

Guardians/Wicca - got their beckon & hexes/healing or astrology (boosting others), (tarot empress allies)

Monks - needs active participating roll, skrimish fits in and is needed currently one monk received it (but leans forward new ganking ability, my solution would not make it a ganking ability and make the other two monks get it who needs it.)

(you know skrimish is needed when the only options for group combat is 2-3 skills, rad, beckon, summon)

(PS tidesweep i dont consider active role for group combat, its very poor assistance & you can't do anything while others have all things they can do, except perhaps warriors who could need more options too.)

That is why i think its needed.

Why do you think these skirmish skills will work better than the warrior versions of them?

Because they're blanket major upgrades of existing athletics skills?

Reason:

Warriors can keep someone in the room, monks can't. We have no option to block exits. (I'm not counting mount as an ability for us its more of a privledge.)

Reason for getting skrimish abilities better then warriors is becouse you already have block and I belive warriors should have more party leading skills then skrimish.

Skrimish fits into the theme of monks & its a fitting gameplay function for monks.

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Possible upgrade for warriors I can see is having "unblock" option, where a warrior can enter a room and unblock exits.

And tackle? or what your skrimish ability is called i think could very well work through shield if you can't bring your target to the same room you came from.

Another skill i thought of is 'charge' kind of like a tidesweep but for warriors and doesn't prone used to begin battle against a group. (doesn't do any damage, just annoys everyone in the room when the warrior enters for a brief moment. Used from another room it brings you to the room and sends everyone in enemylist unbalanced for brief moment ~1 second. That would make it diffrent from our tidesweep too.)

It would create more dynamatic group combats for guilds.

Currently the majority of battle for group combat is proactive, the very minority is reactive.

By implanting skrimish it would not make it an IWIN button it would make it reactive.

If you see someone get pulled into another room, your aware there wont be waiting 10 other there ganking the poor guy, that makes it tactics to either send someone to assist.

The target can escape and move back to the group cause monks can't block exits and first form is very slow. If they cure out of first form they can just walk out.


*thought this post was appropiate here too*

Ok initial impression... too powerful a set up... but gimmie a day to digest it and maybe see if there is a plausible more watered down way to go about it.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm all for making acromonks skirmishers. Use acrobatics for skirmish tactics, so every monk guild has access to that playstyle. Individual guilds may have their own abilities, but use acrobatics as the base. To briefly sum up, allow the use of handstand (instant defense), backflip (instant escape), scissorflip (group dispersal) mid-kata when you regain leg balance. Or pick other skills - handspring also looked good. Doing so breaks kata, and the balance times of the skills and the kata terminate stack.

I'm also thinking jumpkick into forwardflip, a la flying scissors kick. This opens up a 'rapid attack' intro where you suddenly fly into the room, knock them prone and stunned with some damage, and break one limb at random. A capable curer will be back on their feet and healed just before you regain balance, but you'll start the fight with them a tick behind on sip/salve balance. If they're not capable, you'll be able to take good advantage of them being proned with a broken limb. Or jumpkick into backflip even, as a sort of 'monk staff pointing'.

Finally, replace Hyperactive with a passive def. +balance/--eq or +eq/--balance. I want to emphasize that the boost in speed should be a minimal bonus. Hyperactive as is feels far too much like an IWIN button. I'm kinda leery of Stealth monks getting a watered down version of it as is.

Individual guilds may then have other abilities along these lines. Tahtetso has polevault, which has the advantage of being an instant tumble without any balance cost, and you don't have to specify direction. I'm not sure what Shofangi have to work towards this, but you might see them gain something if they don't. Ninjakari have the whole chaindrag/waylay bit.

So far, I'm seeing themes. Shofangi have a damage advantage from their headbutt. It might not be much per hit, but on a damage class, adding just a little bit more damaing/wounding seem a large benefit. I don't know much about it, but in terms of fighting style, I picture them as 'strong'. I'd like to see future changes that make them take the prize for PvP damage.

Tahtetso's fighting theme seems to be 'subdual'. I'd like to see them go more defensive. Superior parrying, a riposte-like effect, or things of that nature. Perhaps more mystic rather than melee, who knows. I'm struggling with whether I picture them as demon-hunter-with-a-staff monk (ie, mystic defender monk) or wall-of-staff-defense monk. But in any case, I'd like to see them more inherently defensive and tanky.

Ninjakari should be about combat control - various tricks to keep the fight nicely unfair in their favor. Even their psymonks should have a second focus in this direction, due to guild skills. That's where I'd like to see ninjas going.

Glom monks seem like the heavy afflictors. We'll have to see.

On a related topic, I'd like to see Psymonks become the 'chi gung' tanky hard hitters. Dish out a hair more damage than acromonks, tank damage better than acromonks. They're just more susceptible to kata killing attacks, hence easier to disable. Overall, I wouldn't want to see them as resilient as warriors (save maybe kephera psymonks?) but all of my ideas here belong in another thread, I suppose.

hrm, i think its bad to restrict skrimish to one skillset like acrobatics, cause it favors acrobatics for so many reasons already then going psymet. It would make use of backflip but... I see acrobatics as a utility not a neccecery. (Hmm i think its intresting idea, but its bad to restrict it to a skillset when their is a choice of two diffrent. If you incorperate it into the guild skill you dont favor acrobatics so heavily over psymet. Which already have huge favor.

(abit out of topic but my idea for acrobatics that i posted to lorick was; forward flip to give kick wounding & remove the prone from it, keep the break limb.

jumpkick would work like polevault but with a stun, but remove the prone effect from it but keep the stun. (wrote up idea about the replacing of our polevault for skrimish ability as in the above)

scissorflip keep it on same.

all above could require one leg.

That would mean you can enter use them and follow up right away with kata, but your unable to perform the moves while in forms.

Then it wouldn't become a neccecery but more of utility effect, getting a small edge)

I like your ideas for handspring & backflip

I would love to see psymonks comparable to acromonks for pve/pvp but the fact remains that not being hit >>>> getting hit and tanking it or trying to regen it off, unless you are capped out or powergaming the hell out of your character, or are titan/demi/kephera.

I had ideas for fixing/improving psymonk as well. I wasn't intending to fix/beef up acrobatics and ignore the other skillset. And I certainly think there's enough monk players who'd rather be tanky over 'fidgety' with extra commands and tactics to deal with. I don't think both have to have skirmish ability anymore than I think a Healer Celestine should have the instakill and escape skills of a Tarot Celestine. Different tertiaries should not result in the same kind of character and role.

This is group role not just adding flavor to skillsets, Celestine/Nilhist has beckon, which isn't a secondary skill choice.

Tarot & healer has something in common, they both have group assisting skills.

One has empress and one has healing.

So I dont think your logic is correct.

Where is it written that every member of a given guild should fit one overriding role in combat? I see an opportunity for variety, and you're saying this variety is a bad thing.

Also, you're talking about putting yet more abilities into skillsets that are already much stronger than the other skillsets of the class. You need to spread the potency around, or else we wind up with a class where you can focus on one skillset only to gain the majority of the guild's abilities. That already exists in too much measure as is.

As well, I don't think your logic is correct. Healing has a group use. Tarot has a group use. They are not the same group use. No more than an acrobat monk would have the same purpose and ability in a group than a psymet monk. This is -why- we have tertiaries we can choose from - so not everyone in a guild is the same.

If you think Healing is meant to be used in groups I don't even know what to tell you.

I was going to mention that, but I was just using his argument. I agree, Healing has little to no group use.

by all means variaty is good, but excluding one basic function from one assets is a bad thing. Every other class has their main 'group' assistance skills in their main skillset or in a skillset all have access too.

Guardian Beckon is group skill
Wicca (Exepetion again, coven & choke they all have access to and is secondary skill.)
Mage/Druid Demesne is group skill
Bard songs are group skills (their colorsprays are secondary is stronger then main skill tho, but fact remains they have group function in main skillset)
Warriors (Is the exeption, they dont have it in main skill but they have it in secondary 'athletics' which all warriors have access too)

So of either class they all have access to the group skill, that isn't hidden away in some secondary skillset which only some have access too.

In our case it would be harmony/stealth and that doesn't make sence to have it in.

And if you dont have it in harmony or stealth and have it in either acrobatics or psymet, basic assets will be missing, as simple thing as participate in group combat efficiently.

(nm the healing then, always thought you could heal others, i never used it so dont know much about it, but fact remains they have beckon in their main skillset PS: Envoys, there's a good idea! make healing work efficiently for group combat)

(Eldanien, until you post something for psymet that fills group function i dont think you have an argument to stand on for justifing it to only be on acrobats, psymets needs to be more attractive already and making acrobat better isn't very fair for psymets... And there is nothing wrong with having it in main skillset that every monk have access too.

And its always possible to add flavor in diffrent means for the skillsets without removing or copy 'base abilities' like group function. ( Example: acrobatics could be better at skrimish and psymets could be more durable. That wouldn't limit acrobats to skrimish and psymets to "tanking" but would create more variaty. )

My argument to stand on: http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?show...14276&st=80

What group role, do you suppose, would a tanky damage dealer fill? In mass combat situation, after all passive afflictions are laid out, it's all about focusing damage on one target until they're dead, then change target. Voila. Psymonk. When the skirmishers manage to pull/push/beckon/chain/rad or whatever other way get people separated out - guess who's going to be the one smooshing? Everyone else who isn't a skirmisher.

We have here a difference of opinion. You feel every monk should be a skirmisher. I think it would be better to give each player the option of two different styles.

Also, the envoys all know about healing. They've heard it before I'm sure, save for the newest players.

What you're suggesting is we put all the eggs in the primary skill basket. Then when we go to fix up the secondaries (probably not much needed here) and tertiaries (really, really needs looked at), monks will be OP again and such changes will get shot down.

Ok..

Read your posts, but your idea of having any group abilities is still missing for psymet. _Every_ other guild has their group abilities in main skillset or in a skillset everyone has access too, I'm fairly certain that its to give options for tactics, that doesn't exclude you from one type.

I'm positive that its possible to put flavor on acrobats & psymets without giving acrobats only the skrimish options and psymets the tanking options.

anyway this is beating a dead horse i stand by my ideas, i think yours are intresting, but lacking variety of tactics for the skillsets.

( and no, i dont suggest put all eggs into primary skillset, just the basic options for diversity of tactics and i disagree with monks behing overpowered. )

So...what group skills do Warriors have in their main skillset?