The upbringing system seems nice for two reasons.

1. It allows the various races to have set differences (both in terms of stats and abilities). So while it will allow a Faeling with a 'harsh' upbringing to be somewhat tanky, that Faeling will still be outdone by a Tae'dae of any upbringing.

2. It allows the various archetypes to use a wider array of races. So not every Wiccan is forced to be a Mugwump to compete at the highest levels of combat, and we'll be able to see more, say, Faeling or Elfen Wiccans.

The problem with 20 races is, there's only so much they can differ stat-wise before they start to become similar (see: Tae'dae and Igasho). So, ideas for ability-differences.

~ Proficiencies with some specific skills. For example: Lucidians get +10% bonus on all Astrological Spheres; Dwarves have a better chance of getting high stats while forging, and a higher hit-rate with axes; Kephera get x bonuses from certain chants; Deepcover/Veil lasts longer for Illithoids; Furrikin get a bonus to Acrobatics Dodge; Undead Orclach have their cutting/blunt resistances and fire weakness increased by 1 level.

~Affliction resistances. For example: Illithoid/Kephera have a x% resistance to afflictions of the mind; Tae'dae recover from crushed ego 2 minutes earlier; Trill are easier to pin down with webbing, but have a greater resistance to being knocked from trees/sky.

Just an idea to help other ideas:

Races have min/max for their stats, base being 7/18, but general stats start at 10 across the board. The player then has 68 points to distribute among their stats. Stats can also be removed to give you points to adjust another stat also. As a point goes above 10, its cost from your adjustment points goes up per stat. So, like this would be a sample list:

Size would be special in that it would be very restricted in adjustment and would be the only stat not starting at 10. Reduction to size also only gives 1Ap in return, but still follows the normal cost in raising it beyond its base.

Cost of Adjustment Point to Stat Point(Ap:Sp), being the total Ap required per Sp.

Stat # :: Adjustment Cost#

6::1
7::1
8::1
9::1
10::1
11::2
12::3
13::4
14::5
16::6
17::7
18::8
19::9
20::10

So, using the above list as the example, If I went Aslaran, which had a min/max for Str of 5/17, Dex of 9/19, and Size of 12 (meaning cant go below 5str and not above 17str. Can't go below 9dex or above19. Size restricted between 10-14). In steps of each point, it would look like this:

Base:
75Ap
10Str, 10Dex, 10Int, 10Con, 10Cha, 12Size

To start I bring my Dex up to its max, 19, costing me 45 Ap(1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9)
30Ap left:
10Str, 19Dex, 10Int, 10Con, 10Cha, 12Size

Next I bring my Str up to 14, costing me 10Ap(1+2+3+4)
20Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 10Int, 10Con, 10Cha, 12Size

Next I bring my Int up to 12, costing me 3Ap(1+2)
17Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 10Con, 10Cha, 12Size

Then my Con up to 14, costing me 10Ap(1+2+3+4)
7Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 14Con, 10Cha, 12Size

I lower my Charisma to 8 though (lot of catnip fights as a kitten) giving me 2Ap in return.
9Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 14Con, 8Cha, 12Size

I lower my Size to 10(min) also, giving me 2Ap in return again.
11Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 14Con, 8Cha, 12Size

I use then decide I want to raise my Con 2 more to 16, costing me 11Ap(5+6)
0Ap left:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 16Con, 8Cha, 12Size

Thus, I have my Aslaran with Stats of:
14Str, 19Dex, 12Int, 16Con, 8Cha, 12Size


This was just an idea and I really like the idea of personalized adjustments to races, no matter what kind it is.
Also sorry if anyone mentioned an idea like this earlier, was in school when I wrote this and couldnt check ahead.

Look at me, posting in the right thread!

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I wouldn't mind more customization options for races. Customization is always a good thing.

I don't know how much sense it makes to so strongly decouple stats and races. Your race is a reflection of the god you're descended from and some sort of terrestrial creature. It doesn't make much sense for a badger to roll the same stats as a bear, so why would a furrikin and a tae'dae draw from the same set?

I think it would be cool if you could choose bonuses to gain at certain levels based on your race or guild, though. Instead of the linear progression of Aetolia, or even the linear progression of humans, maybe have something where you choose at 1/25/50/75 from a trait or two.

Say, for example, the Celestine track looked like:



And the aslaran track looked like:



You would have two options at level 1, three at level 25, three at level 50, and three at level 75. Some would focus on their guild and gain powers based on their guild, some would focus on their natural abilities and gain powers based on their race, and you'd have a wider range of playstyle

Thats really good for bonuses and the like! But I still think stats should have some similar tree as well.

A furrikin should be able to make a decent monk, and a tae'dae should be allowed to be a playable druid.

I think this is a key point that should be kept in mind during this overhaul. There should be set 'base' stats for each race. After choosing a race and archetype, certain templates open up; these templates add various bonuses/flaws (both stats and abilities).

I'm not really sure -why- there needs to be an overhaul of races. Just because we can? I really don't want to risk a massive imbalancing for the sake of "because we can." I'd enjoy some tweakings...but I think the stats of races should be set in stone. It's been said before, stats are just too easily changed in Lusternia as it is. Minor things like little bonuses/penalties that differ from race to race/city/guild would be nice. I like that alot. See Xavius's post. It adds a little something special for players that can help a little, but won't drastically change the balance of races.

Customizable stats with each race? No thanks.

Mainly since there are a few races that are just never used, Dwarves would be an example of this, they used to be an awesome race, too awesome, people complained, and we had a racial overhaul, things got upgraded, some downgraded, and dwarves got hit with the nerf stick and never used again.

Also, you never hear people say, "yeah pick Viscanti to be a Magnagoran X", and Wiccans are full of Mugwumps instead of elves and faelings.

People have been wanting a racial overhaul for a while, and we have been waiting for the Monks to be finished so we could discuss that part.

Because I want to be able to choose a race I like rather than "best" one? There are plenty of reasons.

I've always wished we would have something like this, where a player could choose any race they wanted, and have a way to make that race good at what they want to do. Also, it just seems silly to me that -every- member of a certain race is exactly the same.

An idea I've been considering:

At a certain number of years after stepping out of the Portal of Fate, or at a certain level (50?), you have the option of stepping through the Portal of Fate again. There's no drawback to doing this, it's just an RP catalyst for the changes you will undergo.

After stepping through the Portal of Fate, the three fates will come forward to speak with you. They will explain that you have learned much since first stepping through the portal for the first time. I think at this point it would be cool if they said a few things about your character. They could mention your honors lines, the rank you've reached in your city, and the rank you've reached in your Guild. This is all just to give you a since of accomplishment.

They would conclude by saying something like "Now that you have who you are, choose which of these best describes you."

Here is where the modifiers are offered, and I think there should be -several-, each focusing around a certain type of adventurer that you are. A swift footed adventurer, a hearty warrior, a charismatic speaker, etc, etc. These stat packs would be completely independent of your racial stats. They do not add or take away depending on what you currently have, they simply are what they are.

Now, some things obviously need to be taken into account, such as certain races having faster balance/equilibrium. I think that needs to be removed from a racial stat, and added to the stat packs. They could be replaces with more role play oriented abilities, or abilities that effect combat less, but should still have their uses.

Also, once you step through the portal of the fate for a second time, your character should receive 2 or 3 more racial abilities. The cameo, since you -are- a changling, should allow you chance your race once per in game month, and/or change your stack pack once per in game month.

Another option rather than stat packs that I've been considering is that once you step through the portal, you are given options how how to alter your character.

Perhaps you are given 10 additional stat points, to place wherever you want (there would of course be caps on each stat, so you couldn't put all 10 into STR). Also, you would be able to take points away from stats that you already have, and put them into another stat. You shouldn't be able to take more than 2 or 3 points away from each one, though.

The last idea would keep races in the same ballpark; since you are only allowed to remove 2 or 3 points at most from a stat, Tae'Daes are still going to be rather large, except that some of them will be smaller than others, some would be more intelligent than others, etc. I also think that this idea could be paired with the idea Xavius mentioned, which would allow customization of racial abilities.

edit: After posting this I see Ethelon wrote a similar idea, but this seems to be a bit easier.

I would love to see something like this, especially for the 2 of us Dracnari left.

On a slightly unrelated note, how does the cameo work with human apportioning of extra stat points? Can you redistribute them every time you change to human?

The human stats are random, up to a set amount at level 95 (so once you hit 95, they're the same for all humans). Using your cameo gets a random distribution of those stats each time, as I understand it, so let's say you're level 55. If you use your cameo, it'll give you human stats, and then randomly appoint the extra stat as if you had just dinged 55.

You keep the same stats each time you cameo into a human, actually.

Anyways: Estarra's said that the admin would look at races after all the monks come out. We all know that the races aren't balanced well against each other. "Viscanti are subpar" or "Mugwumps are the best for affliction classes" or "Stat weighting favors humans and lucidian" shouldn't hold weight when it comes to adding or not adding a new mechanic. Brood viscanti, trill, and dwarves can all be made not to suck with or without a new mechanic.

...you can do that now? You want racial RP? Choose a race based on that. You want combat? Choose a race based on that. Other than some extreme examples...tae'dae nihilist and the like...there aren't any race/guild combinations that totally cripple you combat wise. You want to be a top tier combatant? Then you are going to choose a race that give you the best edge you can get. That's the way it works. Changing it so all races can have the edge if you change their stats such and such way defeats the point of RACES. Minor customization would be awesome. I'd love it. But not stats. Sorry. I'd really prefer not to see 21 int mugwump(non demi) bards running around that sacrificed thier strength and dex. I'm sorry if you want to be a lucidian warrior. There shouldn't be a racial overhaul because people want to be whatever race they want without sacrificing something.

The idea is that the 'statpacks' would be dependent on race (so high int races won't get further boosts), and race basics will be adjusted, too. Mugwumps will probably have their equilibrium bonus nerfed a bit, and their penalties reduced accordingly.

I think you misunderstand. There would be nothing wrong with mugwumps running around with high int, because all other races could get that same int. Looking at the Aetolian version, eq is part of the "int spec" for races too. The races themselves would provide things like flight and the roleplay-related things like dracnari firebreath we already have.

It would make room for lucidian warriors, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Human evolution assigns the stats based on what guild you're in. Every level x human celestine will have the same stats. Every level y paladin will have the same stats. Changing guilds will change your stats, too, so if I went paladin, my stats would eventually adjust themselves to the paladin stats rather then the bard stats.

Ethelon's suggested system seems highly like 1) D&D 25-point system and 2) The original idea the Aetolians came up with. They didn't quite like it for the same reason Bianca is objecting: it's too easy to dump points from the stats you don't need to boost the ones you do. That is insane powergaming potential, and I think that's why they also came up with the setpack idea. Keep in mind that Aetolia is also lowering how high a stat can go and how much of a bonus/malus can do. I think they put the highest skill in a setpack at 16 and the strongest bonus/malus at level 2 (e.g., level 2 bal recovery, but you can't get level 3 without an arti, etc.).

On the other hand, Aetolian mechanics =/= Lusternian mechanics, so I'm not sure how well natural (that is, not including any modifiers from skills & karmic blessings) max 16 in a stat would affect everyone. If we lost the level 3 faster balance and eq for Faelings and Mugwumps, respectively, they should be compensated by an increase in stats elsewhere, but how losing the level 3 faster action will affect the game is beyond me. I don't know the difference in seconds (or fractions of seconds) between level 2 and level 3.

Hm. I seem to remember it being based on guild (to the maximum amount), but a random progression up to that, per person. Ah well.

I don't see what's wrong with every race being equal in terms of combat, with other abilities added to give them flavour. Also, my second suggestion is constructed in such a way that there would still be differences between the races. Also, there would be a logically placed cap on stats, just like I mentioned. Also, things like balance/equilibrium bonuses would be taken into account, so that you didn't have Mugwumps with 21 int and level 3 equilibrium balance. I thought that was self explanatory that that would never happen.

I personally do not think its fair that you may have to choose a race you don't particularly like just so you can be a good combatant.

Yes, you're point is true that this would defeat the CURRENT purpose of races, and that currently picking a race to give you the "top tier" edge is how it works.

The entire point of this thread is that people would like for it not to work this way. I can understand how you don't want every race to be the same, with only RP aesthetics as the difference. That's why I liked my second idea of allowing minor adjustments of stats, so that each race is in the same ballpark of each other, but you can play a Tae'Dae druid without being terrible.