think mugwump with high con intel and cha? that is the flaw of having pick your own stats.

But it wouldn't be a flaw because they wouldn't get the high eq. Because the eq would be part of the high intel. (I doubt you'd get high intel and con or whatever.)

Int effecting eq speed (maybe str or con for balance speed) would make all titans and demigods faster at everything. This in and of itself could be overpowering. Should races have lvl 3 faster anything? Yes. why? So people can play to speed at the cost of being very squishy. However you should be able to customize some things, would regens be good? questionable.

I like the racial and guild options at 25 50 and 75 as this gives some variety.. maybe if you want to keep super high speed muggys mugwump offers a lvl 2 eq and guild can offer lvl 1 or something. I really wanted to see a reverse aslaran ish race with lvl 2 eq and lvl 1 bal, but with a boost to stats or no potion weakness. lvl 1 fire waekness and weak sipping is far from being as bad as lvl2-3 fire weakness.

Eq and Race should have ways to mod them in one way or another based on race.. the super strong ones with balance weaknesses might be able to remove that weakness at lvl X. While you should by all means be better suited to your practice. If I want to be an influencer mugwump, then I might still be mugwump (and therefore toadish) but might come with ego regen, stronger influence attacks, etc.

There should be like 3-4 varities of every race in that races should have changes in them like maybe a race has a faster than normal circulatory system, so they bleed more but maybe potions heal more or regen and such work faster. Maybe because a race is huge it resists broken bones better.

As an example of what I mean in clearer form (with interesting names) and taking into account choice of abilities at lvls mixed with racial stat specs.. That is examples with chosen perks at those levels with stat changes to get an end result.

Mugwump:
Base-
12 str, 14 dex, 10 con, 15 int, 11 charisma, size 12
Regen in swamp, resist asphyx, lvl 1 faster eq, swims and treads in water, can dive
weakness to fire and electric lvl 3


*-Speed- Warcaster Mugwump: Lvl 3 faster eq, -1 str, +1 con
*-Influence- Noble/Scholar Mugwump: Naturally regenerate ego lvl 2, +1 Charisma, -1 Dexterity
*-Tank Mage- ??? Mugwump: +2 con, -2 charisma, -2 dex, +1 int, resistance to blunt/cutting lvl 1
*Physical1 -Warrior- Frog Prince (oh yes I couldnt resist): +2 str, -1 int, lvl 2 bal bonus
*Physical2 -Monk- Boxer Mugwump (starting to run outta names): lvl 2 bal bonus, +25% damage to kicks, +1 con, str, dex. -2 int, -1 charisma, +1/2 size.
NOTE: Frogs legs.. good kicking

Some of these probably are unbalanced but it would allow the race to be at least partially viable in most all situations, while this may seem potent what about an aslaran getting lvl 3 bal but at the cost of some dex? The options of course vary but I thought I would put out an example.

I still don't know what's so bad about the current system - some races could use adjustment, however, nothing drastic seems to be needed.

I agree. I mean Aetolia has had a stat increasing system for a while now and it fits their game. I'm not so sure our fragile balance could handle such a change like that right now.

I agree, I just like the possible varietys

Mugwump need more con.. need a race with lvl 2 eq bonus like aslaran in reverse.. and viscanti could use some tweaking just as examples

The reason for their lack of con is their level 3 eq bonus.

Would seem like lvl 3 weaknesses cover that already..

As long as it isn't broken (wishful thinking - I hate to say that but 90% of new stuff entering Lusternia is broken and gets nerfed or upgraded in the future weeks to be unbroken), a racial overhaul would help a lot. Finally a Dwarf would be useful.

Here are my ideas on how it should be done. First, diagnosis of the problem - make every race more-or-less viable in every archetype. "Stat packs" from Aetolia are basically a good thing - having races as they are with only adjustments for upbringing (as it is in Ashteru's idea, for example) provides too small a difference to make the underdog choices viable. And picking your own stats Ethelon-style is too confusing for real newbies and offers too much area for powergaming.

What I am looking for is that you pick your "build" as in Aetolia along your race, and it is the BUILD that determines the most important stats (I'm going to call them Primary Stats from now on) - STR, DEX, CON, INT, CHA, balance and equilibrium. Size, special abilities, regeneration and resistances (Secondary Stats) are defined by your race, but the race also may change your Primary Stats, albeit to a much lesser extent - a "strong" build may begin with 15 STR, and choosing a Faeling gives a relatively small change of -2 STR and +1 balance recovery. These numbers are only as an example - don't try to analyze them as too weak or too strong.

I have recognised the goal and the key to reaching it. Now we have a problem - powergamers would use the new system to pick uber build/race combos, being even more powerful than before. My solution is simple - we have to first recognise what are the most powerful races for each guild with the current system (specced Faeling, Mugwump, Aslaran, Krokani and whatever else), then make sure the stats attainable under the new build/race system cannot exceed stats of these races pre-change. That way we won't improve the "best" races, only the bad ones:
Pre-change: Wiccan Mugwump - very good, Wiccan Dwarf - you kidding me?
Post change: Wiccan Mugwump - as good as before, Wiccan Dwarf - maybe not as good as Wiccan Mugwump, but (with the appropriate "build" chosen) DECENT ENOUGH to stand on more or less equal footing, without being laughably weak


The final point would be to actually post how the builds and races should be like under the new system. I dislike Aetolia's "per level" race bonuses - they should be all reachable from level 1. It makes our system different from theirs too, and less blatant of a ripoff. And on that post you will have to wait - I have seriously no idea how to make these to be balanced AT THE MOMENT, cause I'm tired and have work to do. I'll make it when I will have time and when I'm sure the choices will be balanced - such things take time to be good.

I would like to see a system which awards roleplaying racial bonuses instead of choices, say if you were a dwarf, and you drank a lot of alcohol, you might develop an Iron stomach which would give you more resistance to alcohol, and maybe give you a chance to resist vommiting. Something that awards bonuses for things you do, rather than giving you a choice.

Well, my idea is to make the race matter not as much as the "build" (this term really needs a better name - let's steal Upbringing from Ashteru), making race mostly:
-A roleplaying choice
-An "edge" in combat (like +1 str is an edge), and not a very base which decides whether your guild/race combo rocks or sucks

100% agree.

It would be nice if the two of you (particularly Forren) would explain WHY you 100% disagree with the idea instead of making a comment to that effect and nothing else. And yes, Bianca, I have read your earlier posts and they've already been responded to by a few people.

I 95% agree...

The other 5% is the part of me that think its would be a lot more fun and interesting to make wild and crazy changes to everything.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Sure, it'd be really cool, but some things are already a balance nightmare, and the more complicated you make things, the more impossible it becomes to make sure all races are worth using, and no races are a guaranteed win for certain guilds.

Obviously something -is- broke, there is a reason Dwarves went from being a decent race, to only ever sometimes being an rp race. The same being for Dracnari and some of the other races.

What Acrune said - if it ain't broke, don't fix it! If it's getting crusty, wipe it off!

This is why I said some races definitely should be looked at. The vast majority are fine, though.

As far as Dracnari - I'd imagine they're holding off changes on them until whenever the admins decide to release Gaudiguch/Hallifax? (Taking bets - I'm on 2012, since the world's supposed to end then anyway.)

Then Lucidians and Dracnari will have the specialization stats they were probably meant to have all along. heh.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

With this mode of thought, they should never have bothered adding bards and monks. Or Tracking. Or Dreamweaving. Or Psionics. Or...

The problem is that you generally find yourself with two choices - pick the/an ideal race for your guild and skill choices, or pick a race based on interest in the race. If you're lucky, they coincide. I don't think the intent here is to make every race equally potent in every guild. It's more a matter of making more races more viable for each guild. There's plenty of people willing to take a 'good enough' race so as to work with their character image.

For some people, it's all about the stats. This option would still exist, it just wouldn't be any more potent than it is now and not have as large of a gap compared to the average. For some, it's all about character image and RP. This option is often penalized harshly. In a game where so much is reliant on race - hunting, influencing and most especially PvP - it boils down to the fact that many people have to sacrifice their preferred RP or character image in order to remain viable.

The proposed race changes hope to address this.